2017 NFL Draft Thread [Archived] Football • Page 38

Whatever dude. I just don't think the Jaguars need to be getting a TE on day two of this draft.

Stupid me i read his career stats backwards lol. But I've watched both and you can eat sand if you think Stills is better. The film tells me Stills is mostly just a deep threat and Ryan Tannehill did a nice job throwing deep bombs last year. That's most of what he did in both New Orleans and Miami.

Lee is an underused, versatile WR who can actually take on multiple roles and we haven't given him that freedom yet because we're hung up on Robinson's 2015 season.

I'm not even talking about Bortles though. I'm saying the next QB needs a WR who's easier to throw to. ARob puts a lot of pressure/focus on the QB placing 50-50 balls well. Bortles was on fire with those in 2015 and then he crashed back down to earth in 2016. I don't want to roll those dice again. I want my next QB throwing to somebody open.

And shit maybe ARob gets a lot better at getting separation. If he does I'd love to keep him and let Lee walk. But I'm using the information I have right now, featuring ARob in our offense led to a lot of stagnation because hes a little too slow and blocky in his movements, to get away from the defense when they are targeting him.

 

I don't think they need to be wasting picks to try and force a need. That's not going to make the team better. Elite tight end class and a team without a tight end. Pretty clear this is the draft to get a tight end haha.

Stills is better. You're trying to spin this because you like Lee. Over the course of their careers, Stills has been better. There is no denying that.

That's neat haha. That's ideal and a luxury and not going to happen. Everyone wants their receivers to be open but that's just not how that works.

It led to stagnation because Bortles is a terrible quarterback. Again, put a Stafford or Dalton on this team and it's a different story.

 

would you say the same thing if a draft had 10 pro-level kickers? and telling me we don't need to be "wasting picks" that could be spent on a good kicker?

tight ends are just whatever to me. I'll only consider it if a crazy deal falls in our lap. Otherwise, that's a position i wait on drafting if I'm drafting for a very needy team.

Stills has thrived in a more defined role that fits his skillset. You're talking about marginal stats, again 720 was his biggest yardage, you're focusing on the TD difference but that is easily explained by him being on offenses that actually targeted him in the red zone.

Be mad at 2 years of injuries, and the Jags' misappropriation of players all you want. Being mad at a player who has only ever been good and gotten open when he's actually been on the field is just misdirected. When it comes down to it Lee doesn't have nearly the snaps Stills was getting, didn't have a well defined role in our playbook until recently, also only recently has gotten on the field in the red zone. But on a per-snap per-opportunity basis Lee has been highly efficient.

I feel like i always have to explain that we're not looking at a point on the line, but the angle of the whole graph, and recent trends matter more than history. Lee's trajectory is clearly pointing upward. We're not retroactively paying him for 2014 haha, we are paying him for what we think he can do in 2018 and beyond.

lol okay Jimmy Haslam. Or you can actually look at what's happening on the field and who is getting open more. Like "no one's going to be open all the time so let's just not try to focus on improving that" what? Is that seriously your response?

I really don't think so because ARob isn't nearly as good a route runner as Calvin or AJ. Those are stupid parallels to be making because those are big receivers who arent slow and dont have to rely on their jump ball.

 

now keep in mind the context. If ARob and Lee were worth similar money it's ARob all day. But in context Lee can be had for WR2 money while ARob is gonna command a top 10 WR contract.

I just don't want to overpay ARob if it turns out he's not a true alpha receiver. I'd rather pay Lee decent money and then draft somebody else who might be that dominant WR.

 

there is no way that Marqise Lee is better than Kenny Stills.

 

I mean if lee stays healthy and has a decent qb maybe but it looks like stills is better after last year

 

You guys wanna make a bet?

 

No, because you aren't understanding the context of this discussion hahaha.

Unless the bet involves the Florida connection or who is or isn't a guard. Then I'll take that action.

 

i will bet 50 dollars Lee gets more yards and receptions than Stills and is within 3 touchdowns of him in 2017

 

But that has nothing to do with the conversation! Stills has been better than Lee so far. That's a fact.

 

Stills has played more on better offenses. His stats aren't that great, like, yeah 9 TDs last year is awesome and Lee hasn't come close to that, fair. Our offense was literally throw to ARob or give up when we got inside the 20.

But playing on a good offense that is using you and using you correctly and staying healthy matters a lot. You act like there's all these variables that make Stills pedestrian 500-700 yard history unattainable for Lee and honestly, nope, literally just he was injured and then had to fight his way off the bench when the FO bought into Hurns while he was hurt. Now that he's on the field I don't think there's anything Stills does that he can't do consistently as well. I saw a steady stream of aggressive highlight catches and sleuthy YAC moves that made me think "yep, this is the guy that won the Biletnikoff, finally he's back."

 

Oh my god haha. This is so dumb.

 

Lee's numbers last year, are very close to Stills' highest volume season in 2014 with the Saints.

you're exaggerating a lot by acting like this is a ridiculous opinion. Stills is a complementary receiver with average stats. Lee was a better college prospect who just now had his first full uninterrupted season... and did just as well as Stills did his second year, in a similar role within a worse offense.

 

Fun fact

Lee is older than Stills

 

There is not a single reason why Lee should be re-signed right now for more money than Stills got. Certainly not when you thought Stills got $10 million.

 

We don't have to agree but I've seen more out of Lee last season than you have apparently. He has a better route tree, more outside-receiver potential, and is someone who can be used in a myriad of ways to attack the defense. I am actually firmly convinced that he will contribute more to whatever team he is on than Stills has these past 4 years.

But I don't base my opinions on contract signings off the team fudging things up previously or based off injuries. I base my opinions on future impact from that player alone. Lee only got 851 yards in our stupid offense that didn't have any 900 yard receivers. It's a crap number overall, but he was behind Hurns until week 6. Then he emerges and puts up 107 in his first WR2 game, burns Peters once for a 51 yard catch in KC, 115 against Xavier Rhodes who tried and failed to bully him, gets Vontae Davis against the colts week 15 and still does 6/86, even his two 37 yard games in that stretch he scored a TD in each. CB1s started covering him instead of ARob and he still was productive.

He tiptoes sidelines, he head fakes double moves, he beats press and bump at the line, he jumps over dudes like ARob, he slips tackles regularly on screens and drags and button hooks, he burns corners on 9-routes even when the offense is past midfield - Lee will be a fucking pro when he gets his spotlight. And I'll be mad if I called it and another team takes advantage. He definitely wouldn't be the first late bloomer due to injury, especially at the WR position.

 

This isn't about agreeing because that is saying this is opinion based. It's not. Statistically and based off precedent, you are wrong. Lee has not earned more money than Stills. Period. I'm done with this until you acknowledge that.

 

nah son, year 4 actually matters for that discussion. Lee improves a bit, gets 1k yards and 6ish TDs this year then yes he has earned as much as Stills. You can't base an opinion of a four year contract off of year 3 when year 1 and 2 were spent injured.

 

It matters, sure. Don't start the discussion then haha. And certainly don't actively deny facts based on projections you want to see. The whole thing was you disagreeing with the fact that Stills has outplayed Lee across their entire career.

 

I'd really like the SB Nation mock to be reality for the Colts. They somehow end up with Jonathan Allen and Sidney Jones in the first two rounds.

 

Most times I read SB Nation and Bleacher Report I'm left wondering if the writer was a fan or just an idiot. This is one of those times.

 

Technically, this one is one writer from all of the sites, as opposed to one writer writing some sort of best case scenario mock that would never happen.

 

Honestly, there really aren't that many guys slotted to go around their pick that I would be unhappy with Miami picking at 22. I think the pick is going to be an EDGE, LB, or safety.

Really, I just hope we don't trade things to move up. That I would probably be against.

 

I wish this thing happened already

 

I'm in the same boat. Panthers are going to get someone I like. Would be surprised if that isn't the case.