Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Gareth Edwards, December 16, 2016) Movie • Page 70

CS Lewis and Tolken have talked about having tentpoles in their mind for their stories before even knowing who the characters are. I'd be willing to bet I could find a lot of authors that do that.

 

TFA has great characters. That's what makes it the second best Star Wars movie

 

It's not contradictory to say that process matters, but that different processes can lead to success. I should clarify, when I said process matters, I wasn't trying to imply there's a correct or one way to do things, but that the way things are done is a valuable thing to analyze and learn and critique. The thing about Hollywood and the way movies are made is, at some point the process all becomes really, really similar in terms of setting up shots and filming actors saying lines. How filmmakers work before that point is a huge part of whether or not it ends up working. Filmmakers and writers who start from basic storytelling, theme, and character and work from there as their starting point I think will largely have more sound quality output in their work than filmmakers and writers who have big setpieces or reveals in mind and work backwards from there to fill out the character/story/theme miss the mark more often. Not always, but it's what I see.

Of course this all comes from my outlook and my taste. Of course I'm going to use directors whose work I don't particularly care for to reinforce why I think their processes might be flawed. I'm not going to say that no one has achieved great work working that way, just that, from my reading/watching/first hand experience, having big moments in mind and backwards engineering a way to get there is really tricky and can render those moments unearned.

 

Thumbs way down. No wonder we like different movies and stories. I'd venture a large guess directors and writers you love have had similar processes to those you hate, even if you don't know about it having occurred. You learning about it leads to some bad confirmation bias. But if you wanna chart out the best movies of all time and research the story creation process and all that, and compare it to the worst and their process and draw correlation and causation ... I'd read that study.

This sounds like movie critic snobbery taking all the creativity, impulse, and improvisation out of story telling.

 

If in one movie you can give me my second favorite character in an entire world, you've done good character work. Heh.

 

I still need to see the other Star Wars films. I've only seen TFA and Episode III.

 

What also speaks volumes is the fact that I couldn't say who you are referring to here. Rey, Finn, Poe and BB-8 are also so strong for me!

 

I left it open ended for just that reason.

 

In Ep 6 whenever Vader dies in Luke's arms and tells him "You were right..." it gets me every damn time

 

I feel like you didn't even read his post. He acknowledged that some things and directors he likes probably operate this way, bas a general rule of thumb it's better to start with good characters than big moments. I feel like that's not a controversial statement.

 

And my point is you don't know which is which on any constant basis or scale, and therefore can't draw any definitive conclusion. And I don't agree one is better than the other or this "rule of thumb." I think the outcome matters most, not how you got there.

 

I am earnest and sincere about what I write about movies. I don't like the position I or anyone else might be coming from to be called "snobbery" or "film hipsterism" or whatever other dismissive tag one might throw on it. Agree or disagree, that's fine. But I don't like assuming motivations/dismissing critique with a generalization. I might be more critical than the average viewer, or maybe interested in different things than other people. Partly that might just be the viewer I am, partially it may come from a background of going to film school and studying how films are made and how to read them, from writing my own works and collaborating with writer/director/producer peers, reading plenty of criticism, plenty of interviews with directors about process and about the art form and about how they view film, partially it comes from working at a film production company to read scripts and identify how they work/if they work/how they could be improved, and writing punch ups and coverages on them. Partially it comes from observing the environments I worked in when I worked on sets or in writer's rooms for TV shows. None of this to say I'm any more knowledgable or any more of a voice of authority on any of this than anyone else. I truly believe that, whether or not I agree, anyone's feelings about a piece of art are as valuable and real as mine. It hit them that way, just as it hit me another way, and there are things it's doing and things we're looking for that led us to our reactions. That's fine. I like to talk about what goes into that. I don't like being given a dismissive label when I feel like I consistently lay out why I feel the way I do.

 

I teared up big time at the end of this movie in the theaters.. but shit, I also teared up as a kid in Big Daddy when they take him away from Adam Sandler

But yeah, I enjoyed this more than Episode 7, and I really liked episode 7. (Except for Hans death)

 

I 1000% on your side that process and intention in art matter.

There may not be a right way to do it, but I think most would agree there is an inauthentic way to do it.

Yes some people enjoy art without intention but I don't believe most of those folks have put as much thought into their taste as they could/should.

 

Intentionality is not the same as saying one process is more right or better. Two very different things. (Authorial intent is also largely irrelevant.)

I think assuming intention *or* process is mostly a fools errand as well, judging by how wrong people are about musical artists' intent (and process) on a hourly basis here.

 

One part that really stuck out to me on my last viewing was how Bodhi keeps repeating, "I'm the pilot, I brought plans," until Jyn finally believes him and says, "You brought the plans." It's this acknowledgement of his part in rebelling against the Empire that finally lets him break from the mental constraints places upon him by Bor Gullet. Absolutely beautiful.

Krennic going to Vader with his HR complaint is the best bad decision I've ever seen.

Also, when Baze calls Jyn "little sister."

 

So on that track.

Do you not think/believe that the way Scorcese shoots dialogue or the number of takes Kubrick demands; resulted in a more intentional product?

Does their process not clearly show in their art? Would their art have ended up the same if they took a different approach to building their films?

Also for context. Im not trying to start an internet fight but your take on this is really interesting to me.

 

this conversation is so silly and surface level

 

I'm not as negative about my feelings as Stuckman here, but I agree with the majority of his points.

 

Jesus....what did I just walk into. Dis place heated!!!

Anyways, my buddy works for a VR company and they were able to bring their cameras to the filming of this movie and film some VR content but if it's not on the BluRay I guess it's never gonna be released. Dumb.

I had this big long post in my head about why this movie is garbage but, what's the point? I need to go study for midterms.

Edit: it's tasty garbage, for the most part, like McDonalds or the Loaded Beefy Nacho Griller now available at your local Taco Bell for only 99 cents.

 

I'm going to guess all of that guys vids are for pop blockbuster analysis lol

 

Nope. I mean he does talk about the big releases, but his more in depth videos cover a range of films.

 

I like Stuckman a lot, but I think there's quite a few things that are off on his assessment. First, I agree the characters aren't as strong as the Saga films, but that's because the important part of the movie is not them, but the story they're in so things like the state of the Rebellion and the plans themselves were given more focus. This is the first Star Wars movie to not focus on the characters and their journey as much as what they're doing and the end results, which is a huge departure for the franchise. Star Wars is expanding to have a wider range of films where the Sagas will be about the characters, and some of the anthologies can just be side stories that may have more disposable characters but still be important to the mythos. Could this movie have had both? Yes but that would have also gotten the audience attached to them more only to kill them in the end. Along this line is why the filmmakers allegedly changed parts of the end from Vader killing the main team to just nameless Rebels. It's hard to have a big family blockbuster where everyone dies and even harder if you force people to love them first. Even as is, my dad still won't watch this because he heard they all die at the end and thinks that's dumb/too much.

As far as his railing on the books,it is misguided to me. None of the books have been required reading, but have only served to enhance the universe. I will agree that the Rogue One related books added by far the most to its film and a lot could/should have been in the movie, but you can't then show Shadows of the Empire as an example of what they should be when that book explains the entire search for Han and setup of Jabba's Palace just as Catalyst is the setup to Rogue One. Plus most of those books in the Journey to the Force Awakens he railed against had nothing to do with TFA and were just a marketing trick to hype up the movie outside of Before the Awakening which came out a week later and was just more backstory on the new big 3. I agree the books should never be necessities, but there needs to be some new information and connections or else why read them? When there's new movies coming out all of the major planned storylines will go in the movies so in order to keep telling stories they have to either connect or be really obscure.

It sucks he didn't like it and others here didn't, but I have a problem with him acting like his issues with the film are hard facts and if you like it then you're ignoring those or just letting anticipation cloud your judgement. Everyone looks for different things in what they watch and what works for some doesn't work for others. I don't get the constant need many people have nowadays to defend their dislikes more than their likes. If they announced Rogue Two: Many Bothans Die and he was pointing out things he hoped were improved then I get it, but coming out with a 20 min video to discuss why you didn't like something after already discussing it a few times seems like an odd way to channel your energies to me.

 

I might see if I can watch his Power Rangers or Drive analysis later in the week to shut my brain off after work lol

 

Just rewatched this. I think it's in my top 3 Star Wars flicks.

The world building is great, the set pieces are awesome, and the characters are mostly just alright. (Does have a great droid tho)

Will be interesting to see if how it stands up once the additional non-saga movies come out.