The Beer Thread • Page 113

My Personal Favorite of Natty Greene's. I see your profile says Charlotte, Triple C and Olde Meck are two of my favorites around the city. I like beer but not a connoisseur so I'm sure other breweries are just as good.

 

I'll be sure to check them out! Thanks for the recommendations.

 

I'll second this, Olde Meck makes some quality stuff and always gets underappreciated in comparison to some of the hype going on in Charlotte now.

But speaking of hype... Heist and Wooden Robot are both killing it right now. Definitely worth your time.

 

Had a bomber of Magic Hat's Feast of Fools raspberry stout last night. I liked it a lot despite a lack of much raspberry to it and it was much lighter than I expected. Propbably a good one for people just getting into stouts like myself. Also really been loving the Stone Americano I got.

 

The brewery in Port Huron I used to go to all the time when I lived with my ex closed today, and it bums me out. Always felt they were very underrated, but kind of expected it would be hard to survive in a city that doesn't give a damn about craft beer.

 

I feel like the bubble is going to burst soon for craft breweries, it has to right? We have like 80+ in Los Angeles alone, and I know they aren't ALL going to last.

 

I don't know if the bubble will burst so much as no more breweries making it big ala Stone, Dogfish etc. I think there will just be a bunch of neighborhood breweries that serve a small section of town. Also the areas with multiple breweries become sort of tourist destinations where people go specifically to visit all of them and do a tour.

 

Ah, ok. The more "vinegar" side of the sour spectrum usually comes from acetic acid. It's pretty common in all sours, but can become overpowering if a beer is exposed to too much oxygen. I don't recall it being an issue in Monk's, but I haven't had it in a while.

 

Same thing in Chicago, there's got to be close to 100 when factoring in the metro area. Lagunitas and Goose are king, with Revolution, Three Floyds, and a couple others a tier below. All the neighborhood or suburban breweries will either go under, or agreeing with @BlueEyesBrewing , just cater to their immediate, local crowds. The market is pretty saturated.

 

What brewery?

I think this that I quoted below is much more likely:

People have pointed towards craft beer sales stagnating, but much of that is craft beer sales from the big guys: Boston Lager is down, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale sales are down, etc. I don't think Dogfish Head has the same market share today that they did five years ago. It seems to me, at least in Michigan, more and more people continue to get into craft beer, but it's more of a "buy local" type thing. People who are just getting into craft beer are getting into Founders or Bells, and the people who have been into the scene for a while are avoiding those breweries in search of something new or something close and fresh. I think there's plenty of room for way more. Even here in Lansing, the fucking capital of one of the top five beer states in the country, just got their fifth or so brewery. When I moved here two years ago, there was one in Lansing proper and one about 30 minutes from where I live in a surrounding area.

I think we could easily sustained growth in on-premise sales (a.k.a.: the neighborhood brew pub) while craft as a whole shows signs of slowing down in sales. People, IMO, prefer to get it from the source as much as possible, and those sales aren't tracked in UPC scans at retailers.

 

Very well said, you smart.

 

Thumbcoast Brewery in downtown Port Huron. Brewmaster there is a great guy and they produced some quality seasonal beers. Hoping he finds work elsewhere soon.

 

I think the "craft bubble" idea is being slightly over-discussed at the moment, as it has been for years. We're hyper-aware of the risk of bubbles as a society now, perhaps more than ever, and we're also all caught up in this 'kid in a candy shop' awe of the craft emergence, which adds to it. But really, look at what market share of total beer sales goes to craft. Its growing but its still less than 20%, and I'm sure that figure includes many breweries that most of us no longer consider "craft" but still technically are. The big domestics are still absolutely dominating the market, dominating store beer shelves, and dominating what Americans still first think of when they hear the word "beer". Craft is still in its formative years of whats to come in terms of taking market share from the big guys.

Now, I still think there will be a wave of craft breweries shutting their doors over the next few years. However I think its not going to be from market saturation problems but instead from product quality and business management issues. For instance, I know of at least 2 nearby breweries whose owners have personally told me that they don't expect to be able to stay in business much longer due to new breweries popping up nearby and taking their business. That sounds like a saturation problem, but in reality both of these breweries make severely sub-standard beer compared to the nearby competition and customers have simply left for the better product. Neither one of these at-risk breweries have made any changes to their product or the way they run their business. So to me, their downfall will be not from a bubble's burst but from their own disinterest in putting out a competitive product. Also, there are plenty of young breweries out there with a couple great recipes but no business or financial skills. These folks are again victims of their own shortcomings (lack of planning, greed, etc) much more so than they are of market forces, although I'm sure many of them will use the market as a scapegoat on their way out of their failed get-rich-quick ventures.

To me, the next big thing (and its already arrived) in craft is going to be consolidation. We're already seeing it with things like Oskar Blues/CCB/Perrin, Victory/Southern Tier, and Stone's True Craft movement. Yes, there will always be those that will sell out directly to AB InBev, like Terrapin and Devils Backbone, but I still believe there is a true desire among the majority of craft owners to keep their business and their product out of the reach of the massive domestic conglomerates. Many of them will turn to each other to weather storms, find additional capital, and of course brew together.

And finally, as consumers there are three major things we can do to substantially help the craft movement. The first is to send a firm message to state legislatures to get out of the way of the craft industry. Strict ABV caps, strangling distribution rules, and limiting a brewery's ability to sell its own product on-site are favorites of state legislatures more-concerned with 'curbing sin' than they are in helping business and people in their state. Secondly, don't pigeonhole yourself into being a consumer of only one or two brands. There's no telling just how much damage has been done to US beer over the years due to a combination of limited options and nonsensical, fervent brand devotion. And most important: buy local. Spend your money locally. Nothing helps craft more than local dollars being spend in their taprooms, and nothing helps you as a consumer and citizen more than spending your own money within your local community.

 

Well said, @DontTellMom.

 

My question for you guys: Do you care about breweries selling to macro corporations? I find myself all the time swimming against the tide; I just don't care. The fact that I can get Ballast Point in Michigan now after they sold is fantastic for me, the consumer. Additionally: Can you be upset with AB buying breweries but not be upset with consolidations? I've never had Alpine in Michigan before they 'merged' with Green Flash, but everyone says the Alpine beers at Green Flash are not as good as they were before the 'merger'. How do we handle the feelings of a place like Founders selling 30% to the largest German brewery conglomeration?

 

Personally, as long as the quality and experimentation is still there, I don't care. I think many people make a huge deal out of this at times, but in the end for me it's all about the quality and availability of beer.


Bottle shop near me is doing a Vanilla Noir release on Saturday. Tempted to go and try to get the one bottle limit.

 

I really don't care either. Maybe it's because I'm in Mass where the best options are more or less completely unaffected by macro beers underhanded monopoly tactics but I have a hard time getting riled up over "sellouts" when in most cases the quality hasn't dipped and the available quantity has increased greatly. It's like BCBS and Founders Breakfast Stout still beat 95% of beers on shelves regardless of where the funding is coming from, am I gonna cut my nose off to spite my face in making some pseudo political stand? Besides, sometimes I want a Miller Light or the like - it'd be crazy hypocritical of me to drink that stuff and swear off any sellout craft brands.

 

Ballast Point tastes just the same, and still makes as many excellent experimental beers, so I have no problem with it

 

A UK brewery just recently was bought over by SAB Miller, and everyone had the same "they sold out attitude" but they actually make some good points in this article. It's worth a read. SAB Miller buys Meantime to enter UK craft beer market

"“I think the term ‘craft’ will disappear. It will become the norm that we have craft beer whether the brewer is big or small. If you stay true to what you believe in, which is high quality premium beers... I think the drinker will welcome that.”"

 

I have a problem with AB Inbev, not the idea of "selling out" in general. I hate the way AB runs their business and won't support them financially. Don't really have any issue with the mergers and purchases by Heineken/Constellation/etc as long as the original quality remains.

 

Firestone Walker's XX is really fucking good

 

I think it depends on whether you're asking me the consumer, or me the beer enthusiast.

As a consumer, its hard to complain as long as quality doesn't change. Our local bottle shops have continued to bring in new brands available to our area through these macro buying micro acquisitions.

But overall, I'm a big fan of small market craft beer. I love nanobreweries with their drop-in-the-bucket level of output. I love that each new batch of my local brewery's 'signature' IPA changes a bit each time. I love having to work out trades to get beer from other small breweries on the other side of the country. Some of my very best friends now, people I often talk to more-frequently than I do my own parents, are guys I met though beer trading. I worry that as macro corporations impart their will on their subsidiaries, innovation and change will be marginalized, shelves will become more-homogenized, as presenting a 'standardized, uniform, consistent product' is high on these corporation's priority list. And of course it is, that's what's most profitable for them.

But at the same time, you run the very same risk with how some of these consolidations are working out. Oskar Blues and Cigar City are now technically owned by a financial holdings company. Not a beer company, but a company focused solely on profits. I worry that at some point someone will realize that doing small batch 200 bottle releases aren't a productive and profitable use of time, despite the fact that I think such operations are currently the backbone of the emerging US beer revolution.

Not to beat on this again, but to me a lot of the struggles that craft breweries face that lead them toward selling out to macros is dealing with distribution and growing pains, most-often inflicted by their own local and state governments. All across the country state beer laws are largely set to help macros and distributors, and they severely hurt micros. Until this changes, micros are stuck at the difficult decision between keeping their own identity and meeting consumer demand.

 

Went to a local spot that just opened which let's you kinda DIY brew at their facilities a beer of your own. I made a Vanilla Porter with Coffee, basically a Victory at Sea clone, so I'm pretty excited to see how it turns out. I've never done any home brewing, so learning the process hands-on was pretty cool, brewed 10 gallons so I'll have plenty of beer to last me a while once it's ready

 

100% valid points, and well articulated. I guess for me it comes down to one basic question I keep asking myself: If I had a successful brewery and a macro came and offered me a truckload of money, would I sell? I think that I would. I find it hard to believe that I would have the backbone to turn down that money.

I wasn't a big fan of that. Had it the other day for the first time and it just seemed 'pretty good' when the label sounds 'fantastic'.

That's awesome! Nothing better, IMO, than drinking a beer that you brewed. We have a spot like that which just opened up this summer. I think places like that are vital as the craft market explodes. I also think a section of that type of business catering to apartment-dwelling home brewers is key. If there was a place which, for a reasonable price, I could brew a beer, give the person my specific recipe instructions, and let the beer ferment there, I would do it in a heartbeat. I was talking to the place here and they said they'd be willing to do something like that for $50-60. I think that's reasonable. I just can't ferment in my third floor apartment (well I could but it's very limiting stylistically; plus, I always worry about my girlfriend's cat hair somehow getting in the beer).