General Forum Chat Thread (I) [ARCHIVED] • Page 533

I think they were referring to you using weird coded language when talking about the site getting "swallowed up" before it gets off the ground. We understand that you are in agreement with Anna's post. Your tactic of attempting to tell people who are personally affected by her words to stop looking or shut up about it is a pretty offensive way to go about it. Multiple people are uncomfortable by your line of thinking and it's clear that you aren't grasping the severity of online interactions, judging by your "it's just tweets" posts.

This issue doesn't seem to be affecting you as much as it is affecting others, so why are you continuing to tell them what they should do? Your "advice" seems to be a bit misinformed and doing more harm than good.

 

This isn't a slight at you, @JulieLynn, but I'm more concerned for Jake's safety and well-being than I am for our peaceful community.

What he's been going through is enough without being publicly attacked for it. can't really even fathom how painful that must be and most of us have seemingly no way to help.

 

Oh man... I wasn't going to get involved in any part of this discussion, but I'm just not sure how you can say things like this...

 

Jake is my friend and I hope he thinks of me as one as well. I only care for the well being of my friends and I understand his reasons 100%. That is why I am sad.

 

I'd be worried if @KimmyGibbler were the only person agreeing with me

 

Anna is who you should be having the discussion with. I've only seen phaynes1 contact her via twitter but I don't know if maybe DMs were sent. Jason has no control over twitter and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Are you upset with her having a different opinion on the subject and you would be more comfortable if she wasn't a moderator? I'm just trying to understand. I feel like there has been good discussion from both sides even if you don't agree and that's good, right?

 

I get it. Sorry if it seemed like an attack or anything. Just don't want the focus of the convo to drift toward the sites well-being and away from Jake's. Not that you intended that or anything. Idk, I'm over explaining myself but I hope you know what I mean.

 

It really doesn't boil down to just "having a different opinion", it's that she basically went after Jake personally to say things that made him feel unsafe.

 

i want to make this

 

If that means removing yourself from a dangerous situation and finding legitimate means of help, yes.

I don't agree with everything @kimmygibler is saying, but she has a point about there being more people on this website dealing with issues every day that manifest themselves in different ways. In this particular situation, I think @Sophos' decision to leave is a positive one. Dozens of people talking around his life and illness is not beneficial. This is an open forum with many people with many backgrounds talking about many subjects often veiled under one generic topic heading. I don't agree with Anna tweeting about her problems with Jake at all, but it is her Twitter account and the only thing that can be done to address what she said there is to address it with her, not to condemn the user base of this forum for something they can not control.

Anything that is seen and triggers someone should definitely not be ignored or labeled "it's just tweets." Words have consequences.

I think most users of this website would agree with this and aren't coming from a place that wants to help Jake. However, it seems clear after the past week that Chorus.fm is not the place for him to find what he needs. That doesn't mean it isn't a place for others to find assistance with their struggles and for that reason—the way this community handles issues like this absolutely matters. Silencing those who come out to defend this website without considering that (despite the immediate issue) is no better than what happened to set all of this off in the first place.

I think we all hope Jake finds what he needs and many will continue to help him on that journey outside of these forums.

 

This in no way represents my views, but I'm imagining that many do exist, and they are just wisely choosing to hold their tongues because they recognize the damage that can come from having those conversations during the peak time of conflict.

 

No worries my friend.

 

But don't you think that posting that on twitter, subtweeting Jake in the process, instead of joining the discussion going on here is a pretty roundabout, unproductive way to get this across? Not to mention that, opinions or whatever aside, it's reaaally not her job to be lecturing Jake on his situation.

 

This is a fair question. As far as I stand, I don't care what her position is or continues to be - the thing that matters to me is that it is stemming from original posts in this forum and from interactions on this site. Also, for better or worse, the fact that she is a mod does attach her to the fabric of the community, regardless of how small or the reasoning for her position. More or less, for me at least, I feel this way because it stems from feelings that began at this website and the site is inextricably attached to my continued feelings on the issue.

 

@ me in it if you do make one!

 

I'm really really trying to wrap my head around this. I'm familiar with both individuals and the good work they do.

Anna's tweet is obviously directed at Jake and I don't agree with the way she went about it. Right now I'm trying to understand what could possibly be her motivation for the tweet. Part of me thinks she may just be uneducated or ignorant on the issue. Another part of me feels that because of the causes she advocates (feminism/LGBTQ) she has seen people use addiction and mental health as an excuse to be abusive, not saying that Jake's actions are abusive, but that she may have seen his behavior follow in such a pattern, once again not saying that they do follow such a pattern.

I can't confirm either, but I do feel that the issue may be intersectional.

 

Coming from someone who despises sub tweeting, she's using her personal twitter to get her feelings out even though hers was directed at him and just like Jake has been using the forums to get his feelings out. I guess that's what I'm ultimately getting at. I know people were upset about Jake (I'm sorry I'm not trying to talk about you like you can't see this) being told to go to prestigious to talk about it and some people were triggered to self-harm bc of the discussion and Jake was triggered too from things. I don't know how to make a positive place for everyone, you know? It's frustrating. No one wants anything bad to happen to Jake or and of the other people triggered. I don't know if this makes any sense. My brain is fried, atm.

 

You and me both.

 

Ya I really don't feel comfortable being part of the discussion atm, PM me if you are in need of support

 

I would like to start this by saying that for everyone who says they’ve tagged me on here or reached out to me personally – including Jason – I have gotten exactly zero notifications. I can provide screenshots to that effect. I don’t know if it’s a setting I have turned off or what, but that’s where I’m at.

So, let’s provide some backstory. I was diagnosed with major depression when I was 6 years old. That was how old I was the first time I attempted to commit suicide.

I grew up in a household where addiction ran rampant. It’s something I’ve always been cognizant of and have dealt with firsthand, both in my personal life and in the lives of those close to me. I am not coming from a place of ignorance here.

And I’ve hurt people. I’ve lashed out. I’ve been so consumed by my own pain that I didn’t care who or what was collateral damage. The depression and substances were the reasons for the hurt I caused – but they didn’t excuse it. Getting older has shown me that with breathtaking clarity.

So, here’s what I’ll apologize for. I’ll apologize for my delivery. Subtweeting is not my general method of communication, and I used it in a moment of anger and frustration because my attempts to engage with Jake directly have always devolved very quickly into emotional bullying and have never been fruitful. I am genuinely sorry if the tweets – especially taken out of context, the way they were on here – were hurtful to anyone. Everyone has their struggles and I sincerely apologize to those whose struggles I made harder today. This was never about Jake as a person - merely the behavior pattern I've seen established over the past few months.

However, I won’t apologize for the content of what I said or how I feel. There was context provided in the tweets that followed – I was in no way shape or form implying anything about addicts or the mentally atypical as a general group. I was referring to a specific pattern of behavior where conversations about any small disagreement or faux pas – or even blatant misogyny/racism/etc – get silenced because the person being corrected instantly holds up their struggles as a reason why they are above reproach. For example: I once dated a boy who hurt my feelings. When I told him he’d hurt my feelings, he said he was worthless and was going to go kill himself. This is abusive behavior. This is not okay. This is what I am talking about. And taken in context, it is a stretch and a silencing tactic to pretend that I was saying anything about the community as a whole – a community I am a part of – in any sort of derogatory sense. The internet is not a vacuum and I probably should’ve known better, but here we are.

It is not ableist to acknowledge that it is possible for anyone to be abusive. It is not inherently abusive to state that. Especially when it is something that I’ve personally experienced – and if that makes me a villain, then okay. I guess I’ll go to hell. I did not say all mentally ill and addicted people are abusive, or that their illness doesn’t play in to their behavior patterns. That would be awful. But that also isn’t what I said. I was and am addressing a specific behavior pattern. Not the disease. It is by no means something I see employed often - but when it IS used, it is incredibly troubling. If this is not something that you do, then the tweets were not about you.

It bears noting that the today’s tweets were not a series of subtweets, nor was it me “still going on about it” arbitrarily. Someone restarted the conversation today, and that was me attempting to provide context. I am not perfect, nobody is. But I stand by the gist of my sentiment because I have seen both addiction and mental health be used as a crutch or to gaslight and as someone who has suffered from both, I do not appreciate it being done to me or my friends one bit.

Jake: You may be upset by what I’ve said, but please do not disrespect us both by calling me a liar. The instance I was referring to – perhaps not maturely, but was referring to nonetheless – absolutely happened, and there were witnesses to that effect.

Finally, I’ll say this: If I need to remove myself from this community, I will do that. If that’s the general consensus, then so be it. What I said was in response to my own feeling that this was becoming an unsafe space because of this behavior pattern - and ironically, it seems I've made the space feel less safe in my efforts to vent my frustration about that. Some of you have already decided that I’m an evil bully, and I probably can’t change that – but know that the way I’ve been represented here is incredibly unfair and doesn’t even begin to tell the whole story. In fact, it is emblematic of what I was talking about.

I cannot be sorry for the ethos of what I said, because it speaks to my experience and the experiences of many others - many of whom aren't speaking in here because they already do not feel this community is safe re: what I was tweeting about. I am sorry for those I've hurt with how I chose to say it - for whatever that's worth.

 

I didn't mean to make you uncomfortable. That's all I'm going to say about the matter.

 

Nah it didn't have anything to do with anyone! I'm just conflicted and can't really add anything else

 

So... little late to the party and i'm clearly entering this thread at a pretty intense moment, but... Absolutepunk is gone eh? I'm assuming we're all mourned that already.

Is there no commenting/posting in each news story anymore?

 

Where can I start to figure out how this all started?

 

Check the Articles forum. It has all the news stories and an explanation for why that is now the case.