Jesse Lacey Playing Benefit Solo Show • Page 14

I have no idea what you're even trying to say here.

 

No i would never harass anyone online or offline. Those who do that won't change because someone say so.

 

The same as from the beginning. Brand new's career was trashed for way less than bigger musicians got away with. That was my issue since day 1.

 

What you are doing right now, literally things you've said said in this thread, is very much a form of the exact kind of harassment being discussed. And you've watched it happen in this exact thread to an even grosser degree and said nothing.

 

What?

 

That you don't find that "bigger musicians got away with it" as the issue, is what I find disturbing. The issue is very much that people continue to "get away with it" and that because of this you think this specific band should ... be ... able to get away with it? This is all kinds of weird ass circular reasoning.

 

Still don't get it right?
No one should get away with it, but if someone does it's already double standards and it is awful.

 

Here, I'll make it explicit:

This is is very much exactly a form of this:

Some of his intensely loyal fan base has since done everything in their power to victim blame, slut shame, and discredit the women coming forward

 

That person is such a waste of skin and bone.

 

Yeah not accepting double standards mean im victim blaming. Ill stop here, there is no reason for this conversation to go forward, because it's getting very low.

 

If this thread was about any one of those artists that person would defend them too. Just pathetic

 

Okay but you could use this same logic to argue a random sex offender who isn't famous should get away with it because otherwise he would be facing more consequences than famous musician Jesse Lacey. The conclusion of your argument should be that no one should get away with it, not that everyone should.

 

And you are a pathetic asshole. There goes the getting personal phase you started in your first commebt to me. Douchebag

 

I guess this is now the de-facto BN discussion thread?

Takes:
-Of things Jesse Lacey could decide to do on a daily basis, playing a benefit show for those affected by the fire seems like one of the better choices he could make. Jesse is Jesse, BN is BN, and if you're on this website you probably understand why that's a big of a draw as it is to get people to show out and get money for the cause, even if you disagree that anyone should want to see Jesse/BN play anymore given Jesse's previous actions. The fires suck, people need help, and even a bad man can do a good thing for a good cause. It's also completely valid not to be drawn/stay away due to his involvement, but in the scale of things, I think be brings more money to the cause being served, and thus I fall on the side of it being an 'acceptable evil' if that makes sense. Disagreement with that is certainly valid.

-Drawing on what Jason's been saying, I'm not sure how anyone/everyone would feel if Jesse/BN at this point made a statement around people who chose to harass/defame/deny anyone who came forward about Jesse's actions. Too little too late would be my take there. I imagine others feel similar. Does it then follow that because they didn't say so at the time, nothing they say ever is going to 'matter'? Or does it still carry weight if they were to speak now/later? I don't really know. Outside of it being a step in taking more proper responsibility and ownership, which I'm sure is worth something, I'm not sure how much material change would be the result, both given the time passed, and people who would have done / will continue to deny the legitimacy of those victims, their experiences, and vilify them. I would agree anyone who would continue that sort of behavior, in spite of such a statement would be in an undeniably indefensible position, but even without one I'd still put them entirely in the wrong.

-I definitely get the frustration that results from people coming in here who choose to hand-wave because nothing ever came to a court case. Plenty of things that are legal can be 'wrong', plenty of things that are illegal can be 'right'. Legality isn't morality and a court case is not the only place from which to derive a sense of truth or morality. I guess you can hold the position that because some piece of this wasn't 'proven' to your satisfaction you disagree with the treatment of Jesse/BN if you have to, but I don't know how a reasonable person observes the victim's statements, articles, Jesse's statement, and does not come to a conclusion that objectively bad things took place that should have consequences.

-To that end, consequences and all, I feel weird trying to think about what the consequences ought to be for Jesse or BN by extension. Must they never become a public active band again? Should Jesse never play in a public capacity again? If they can what 'measures', if any are necessary? Does any of Jesse's 'work' on himself factor in? I feel wholly and totally unqualified to say, it all just makes me feel weird and uncomfortable. I feel like there are people much more directly harmed than me who are more valid sources of what ought to be rather than I as some random fan of their work. I have selfish reasons, around wanting more BN music and having never gotten to see them live, but I recognize those as selfish desires that should maybe not be given into given all that has transpired.

-Finally, yes, there are a lot of bad actors in the scene who have done 'worse' things (this kind of comparison also makes me uncomfortable), some of whom maybe have not paid an appropriate 'price' in some way. I don't think that changes anything for Jesse/BN, and I don't think it gives us permission to excuse anyone or act differently because the standards are not upheld as evenly as we think they should be. If anything, it should drive us to hold more people accountable, regardless of how much we happen to like their band, and fall more on the side of supporting victims, and expecting more from those bad actors in terms of proper atonement for their actions.

 

God damn, I endured all that to make as well-reasoned argument as humanly possible for the band’s return.

and then we saw some of the grossest and most illogical reasoning ever displayed to the point I almost want to change my view lmao I just can’t with any of this.

I’m grabbing a beer and putting on that weird new Andrew Dost album (metal bubble trio) that had me head boppin earlier and enjoying Friday. Cheers to y’all that brought thoughtful points to the table.

 

I hope you have a good evening! I have no idea who Andrew Dost is

 

Not accepting double standards usually would mean you'd want all the people that do bad things to face some kind of repercussions, not that because someone got away with it someone else should too. That's not "not accepting double standards" in the good way, that's the bad place way.

 

Hey it’s pretty challenging. I’ve been hopping back and forth between it and this thread all afternoon

 

It'll click, you'll be hitting those e13s in no time

If you ever need any consulting lemme know

 

I believe in second chances let it be a famous person, or a warehouse worker, seems like you don't, let's hope you won't need it in your vicinity ever. but those second chances shouldn't be given out by the scene police especially if they judge differently in different cases.

 

Zero people here have said they "do not believe in second chances." Zero. You are making up fantasies that no one is saying.

 

Multiple people said it, lol

 

do you believe second chances are freely given and not earned? if freely given, who should get to decide? does the offender get to decide? the "scene"? the survivors? is there anything contingent on a second chance being allowed at all for you?

 

I don't know the exact method. The victim definetily should take part of the forgiveness process, probably time is also a big factor. But making someone a devil for the rest of his life for things he done in the past, in my opinion is not the right direction. This is why released felons getting hard time getting back into the sociaty. But it's a way bigger issue than this.

 

Where? We're on a text based forum. Please quote the person that said they do not believe in second chances. I've had conversations over the years with most of the people posting in this thread and the idea of "no second chances" would run counter to the core of their beliefs.

A second chance, an earned second chance, has been at the center of most of the complaints here because zilch, and in many ways the opposite of what would earn a second chance, was done.