Accountability in Music • Page 900

of course not, not what i implied nor said. yet if we are gravitating toward the art made by a person who horrifically raped others, because we feel it expresses something we're unable to express ourselves, it's possible that's not a deep contradiction that needs to be reconciled, and more that as a society, we've not yet even cracked open the potential of what art can be, and someone making something well-crafted (but missing a fundamental dimension) feels transcendental.... because we're in creative infancy

it's an existential question. if art cannot point the way at all, if there is no correlation between morality and creation, then we are missing a very potent synergy. as a collective.

 

i don't think people are evil because they have evil souls
i think if you choose to act in evil ways it will corrupt your soul, which is the vessel through which you engage with the rest of humanity + also the vessel for making art
not everyone feels the same way, that's fine
but i do believe all this extreme compartmentalization is preventing us from all reaching a deeper level of honesty that we'll need in order to seriously reckon with situations like these

unfortunately it isn't the fault of the person who had horrible things done to them, but it is their responsibility. if that's how they choose to respond to them, despite experiencing success in life, that's how evil propagates. (imo but also i'm being real)

 

I think acknowledging our capacity for evil helps keep it at bay. Many people who commit evil acts don’t view themselves as capable of evil and they use this fixed idea that they are good people to rationalize their evil behavior. TL;DR: check yourself before you wreck others.

 

yeah for sure

also unfortunate truth is that most people who commit evil acts had such done to them. or are coming from a place of trauma/woundedness - that is how evil propagates. israel perpetuating the exact genocide that was done onto them to another group of people is case in point #1. if you experience horrible things it is not your fault at all but it is your responsibility to then heal so as to not do the same to others. because we are a collective and share the burden of the darkness in the world. and if you don't or can't -- and then pass it on -- that sucks for you but you are then lost. your humanity has been swallowed by the evil that was done to you. and the focus is now on helping those you hurt heal. so they don't pass it on. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

there is no infinite well of empathy when we have such great capacity for harm. (and beauty and goodness, too, but yeah). if someone's trying that's fine. if you read the article... that's not someone who was ever trying. or at least hasn't been for a long time.

the existence of a binary (good and evil) does not mean black & white thinking. it just means acknowledging the duality exists. like night & day. life & death. order & chaos. duality is a building block of any kind of structure. and washing it away with "well we all have the capacity for both within us" (obviously true but not helpful in situations like these) is avoiding facing a hard truth. people do things like the things neil gaiman did. these people live in our communities, receive praise and credit for their work, and we give resources and energy to them and put them on a pedestal and thank them for inspiring our lives. all the while they are (trigger warning) raping and dehumanizing someone while their seven year old child watches. we need to not flinch from this reality and instead understand why. or at least try.

 

If only good people can make good art then there is no good art.

 

I can acknowledge that I am capable of harm, but having read that piece, I'm fairly comfortable saying I am NOT capable of what Gaiman did. I'm sure there are many out there who are, but when you're looking at Salo-level depravity, I think it goes a bit deeper than "we are all capable of good and evil" (however true that may be)

 

It's also extremely disappointing that his ex-wife Amanda Palmer was supposedly complicit in it. Such a bummer

 

Honestly it read like she was not only complicit, but actively looking for women to pass on to him in a couple of cases.

 

at the very least she relied on these young women for unpaid labor which is very sketch

 

Ugh. Sometimes I hate humanity

 

Maybe this is nothing, but it feels real weird to me to see the Gaiman shit and say "I have some thoughts about art and morality," and not "wow that guy is a fucking monster." I don't remember this conversation happening around Diddy.

 

I don’t know I’m fine with some actual discussion rather than “yikes! Fuck that guy” posted ad nauseum

 

Maybe because the people saying it have a connection to Gaiman’s work and not Diddy’s. The same topic has come up with many people. Not really sure what you’re even trying to get at.

 

Yeah, that’s fair. I don’t have a connection either, so I just found it strange to philosophize over the author and not the rapper. That’s on me.

 

Feel like Gaiman’s connection with people goes far beyond Diddy’s. Diddy stopped being taken seriously like 20+ years ago, but had enough cultural cache to always be in the conversation because of who he is and the immense power he had behind the scenes. But no one is throwing on his albums and claiming they’re legend, whereas I feel Gaiman has a large catalog of beloved works and was always taken very seriously.

 

Speaking only for myself, my posts were not about him. Not to say I’m against any that are, it’s just not where I was coming from. I never got into any of his works and enough people have said how awful his actions were that I’ll just never take in any of his art.

 

Saw this thread on Bluesky and thought about the conversation happening in this thread. Be well, friends.

 

Was the MCR forum Imnotokay.net? Lmao

 

You jest, but this was pre-three cheers lol. Once that album came out and the website got revamped the forum just ceased to exist.

I do remember the drama on there about the band kicking Matt out and replacing him with Bob. Fans weren't happy at all.

 

Watched the first two parts of Channel 4’s Marilyn Manson: Unmasked documentary.

There’s some pretty horrific stuff already, but I think what struck me the most was his former bandmate basically saying, “I don’t think he did anything with minors because his tour manager used to stick each states age of consent up on the wall of his bus” as if that isn’t the most screaming red flag of all time.

 

What does it say about me that I'd never heard of Neil Gaiman until seeing his name in this thread yesterday, but I owned nearly every album that Bad Boy Records put out in the 90s and think No Way Out is an absolute classic and am devastated about the horrific Diddy stuff?

Don't answer that, I guess.

 

Different strokes for different folks! I don’t doubt Diddy had a connection with people, especially those growing up the ‘90s. But there’s no denying he had a clown ass reputation prior to this, from the name changes to knowingly withholding money from everyone who was on Bad Boy to all his publicity stunts. All of the abuse stuff just paints it all in a darker light imo.

 

I’m not joking, I posted on that website when I was straight up 11 years old lmfao (now that I think about it was more like 13 but still)

 

Oh yeah??? Hahaha. But yeah, I totally forget what the actual name was, I just remember it was before they got big BIG because I remember when a couple early demos leaked and it being pre-three cheers, the name imnotokay.net wouldn't have fit as that song wasn't even a thing in the Bullets era.

Actually thanks to Reddit I found someone who posted an old image of it!

 

Singer of SeeYouSpaceCowboy in response to being booked on a tour with Dance Gavin Dance