Invasion of Ukraine • Page 165

Someone might say it was the most perfect phone call in the history of phone calls

Zelensky hails ‘excellent’ first call with Trump as proposals to end war in Ukraine emerge — Novaya Gazeta Europe

 

If it helps end the war it will be just that.

 

If Zelensky is okay with it, it should be good.

 

Have no idea how Trump and Co will treat the Ukraine war; the single call to Putin could be "Remove your forces or else we'll give Ukraine everything they need", or he could do a call to Zelensky saying "accept current battlefield lines and we'll support your economy" or something. You would think though the military industrial complex would have great sway over Trump/those in the administration, so would prefer the war keep going. But yeah, hard to predict anything at this point.

 

Zelensky could just call Trump and say “Biden weak man. Unwilling to stand up to Russia and support us. But Trump strong. Isn't afraid to do right thing”

I’m sure Zelensky is figuring out ways to stroke Trump’s ego and I don’t blame him

 

I also saw this, so curious if he keeps this line of thinking or not

Trump accuses Pentagon leaders of wanting to 'fight wars' to make defense companies rich

 

He’s not wrong, but he also makes up his mind by the hour and he is a compromised person. If the MIC is the highest bidder that day he will pretend he never said it.

 

I had always just assumed that when trump said he would end the war in Ukraine in a day he was insinuating that he would make Ukraine surrender at whatever the current lines are at that point, but trump also told a story where he claims to have told Putin that if he invaded Ukraine he will nuke Moscow, so who the fuck knows

 

And another one

Top Russian Navy Commander Killed in Car Bomb Attack in Crimea: Reports

In Sevastopol, the head of the staff of missile ships of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation, Trankovsky, was eliminated, – sources

 

German Leopard tank blitzing a Russian column of vehicles

 

Comprador

 

Trump has been hiring both pro and anti-Ukraine aid people in his admin, so imo, its still a mystery as to how 2025 will go for Ukraine / if they'll get to negotiations. If Europe steps up their aid even more over the next year they might not need to rely on aid from the US as much, which changes their negotiation calculus. I do see a situation where Zelensky offers their natural resources, in exchange for continued aid. But yeah, hard to predict anything right now.

 

Well, my point is it's pretty silly to give away your entire economy to save 3 provinces from being annexed by a neighbor that half the people in those regions would prefer to be part of anyway

 

I get this point, but I also don't think Ukraine believes Russia will stop there

 

also, I think this framing is exactly as gross as when people in the US govt talk about sending weapons to Ukraine being 'the best money we've ever spent' because it means dead Russians and no US troops in the line of fire

 

How so exactly? Zelenskyy's proposal is much closer to this dynamic. The US gets to economically dominate Ukraine without it being in NATO or the EU

 

I think I misread your original post - I thought you were referencing this war overall when you said 'giving away your economy', not referencing these recent proposals, and I thought that was gross given the loss of life on all sides

 

it does seem ironic or maybe just very tragic that all of this bloodshed and death and suffering was ostensibly about preventing Ukraine from becoming a rump, neutral, vassal state having it's resources exploited by a dying empire only for Ukraine to end up a rump, neutral, vassal state having it's resources exploited by a dying empire

with friends like Joe Biden, who needs enemies?

 

Many of us in this thread were saying this years ago? How are you only just realising this?

 

I'm not?

I have been furious at Joe Biden pretty much nonstop since February of 2022. Every decision he makes almost seems purposefully designed to be the worst of all possible options for every person on every side.

 

(my last statement there included Russians, which I hope was obvious, but something about the discourse surrounding this makes me feel like I should point that out, specifically.)

not that anyone cares about one random person's thought experiments, but I am almost certain that I would say that the way the United States has treated Ukraine is just as horrible as the way Russia has, and I am wording that carefully, and I mean what the words say.

Russia happens to be operating up close and very kinetically right now, whereas the United States is acting in a way that makes our actions appear more passive, but they are not, we simply have an advantage in resources & reach, albeit one that is increasingly tentative each and every day.

I can’t say that the US has treated Ukraine worse than Russia has though, but it absolutely has, and continues to, treat them equally as poorly.

I very much don't go in for the spheres of influence bullshit, either - I know powerful countries are going to do what powerful countries are going to do, but I don't think Russia has the right to force Ukraine or Georgia to act a certain way any more than the US has the right to do that to Cuba or Canada