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General Politics XII World • Page 291

Discussion in 'Politics Forum' started by Melody Bot, Oct 20, 2024.

  1. Matt Chylak

    I can always be better, so I'll always try. Supporter

    Yeah, he definitely won some people over… I could see/hear that while canvassing in Philly. The clearest reason why she lost is people staying home, not Trump persuading folks.
     
  2. St. Nate

    LGBTQ Supporter (Lets Go Bomb TelAviv Quickly) Prestigious

     
  3. TheGuyfkaFringeofLunacy

    Trusted Supporter

    I feel like a lot of those always blue states that had a rightward shift are going to to have a big gap of votes vs. eligible voters. Feel like there is a ton of people who stayed home in those states and probably other states to be honest.
     
  4. Coward, can’t even say out loud that you love genocide
     
  5. TheGuyfkaFringeofLunacy

    Trusted Supporter

    I wish I could find the tweet but there was somewhere I saw that just had a bunch of people vote for Trump and not vote in any other race.
     
    JoshIsMediocre likes this.
  6. Importer/Exporter

    he’ll live forever in the sound of broken glass Supporter

    I wanna like Matt because i love that Cassandra Jenkins album, but i just can’t understand taking the time to talk poorly about someone who had the right moral calculus, stuck by those morals, and still tried to help your party win, but was ignored by the Party doing a genocide against people like her.
     
  7. MidDave

    I'm Sleepy Supporter



    Someone call 911, just got a concussion from rolling my eyes
     
    Victor Eremita likes this.
  8. Matt Chylak Nov 7, 2024
    (Last edited: Nov 7, 2024)
    Matt Chylak

    I can always be better, so I'll always try. Supporter

    I think we’re making a similar point though, which is that progressive champions’ role in Congress is to build the relationships and make the arguments that help get this over the final mile. I very much respect the work done to get those things there, but our system is a machine that’s entire purpose is to grind things to a halt. As an example, my friend Sam worked for one of the veteran nonprofits that helped get the burn pit bill through Congress. She would be very comfortable saying that the final push (sadly) came from Jon Stewart, who of course didn’t do the work but helped get it done. I believe that’s a key role of progressives in the current Democratic Party — to create the material conditions by which good things can happen.


    To be super clear: I didn’t say that was the right decision or that I agreed with it. (I thought that was implied by the middle of my comment, but if not I apologize.) That was my interpretation of her party’s political actions, as my a priori assumption is that neither Harris nor Biden wants a genocide to occur. I obviously might be wrong.

    We disagree. I think when you’re a member of a party, your role in that situation is to get the lesser of two evils. I know that many here will equivocate between the results, but it seems commonly accepted that Trump is going to hand Ukraine to Russia and Gaza to Israel. Obviously Harris’ loss is the Democrats’ fault, and Tlaib is not even in the top 50. But I do think that Tlaib echoing that message while maintaining her disgust at the atrocities happening on our tax dollars would have won Harris a few thousand more votes amongst her constituency. So by definition, that’s a factor.
     
  9. sophos34

    Prestigious Supporter

    you can have the best music taste in the world, if you criticize the only Palestinian American in congress about her comments on the genocide happening in Palestine you are not worth engaging with
     
  10. TheGuyfkaFringeofLunacy

    Trusted Supporter

     
  11. sophos34

    Prestigious Supporter

    the way people have been discussing this issue makes me lose faith in humanity every single day. it’s all gone I have no more faith left.
     
  12. Brother Beck

    Trusted Supporter

    David Frum pay my bills challenge
     
  13. Matt Chylak Nov 7, 2024
    (Last edited: Nov 7, 2024)
    Matt Chylak

    I can always be better, so I'll always try. Supporter

    It got kind of blown out of proportion as I kept responding to increasingly emotional responses because folks in here love Tlaib. I maintain what I originally said and did my best to articulate why I felt how I felt. I don’t think she is an effective congressperson, nor do I think that she was a net positive in the country’s decision between Trump and Harris. She has admirable moral clarity.
     
  14. Blainer93

    Prestigious Supporter

     
  15. David87

    Prestigious Prestigious




    [​IMG]
     
    SmashRipsaw likes this.
  16. sophos34 Nov 7, 2024
    (Last edited: Nov 7, 2024)
    sophos34

    Prestigious Supporter

    I’m not emotional because I love tlaib I’m emotional because there is a genocide happening that our leaders are supporting and if that doesn’t make you emotional I sincerely have to wonder if you’re even on the same side as us
     
  17. Importer/Exporter Nov 7, 2024
    (Last edited: Nov 7, 2024)
    Importer/Exporter

    he’ll live forever in the sound of broken glass Supporter

    I think the political system we have is indefensible, and that in part is because its purpose is to grind things to a halt. This is the reason why we should be abandoning it and building something different. Either way, I don’t think “getting things done” in Congress is a good metric for a person’s value, or a good excuse to dismiss them as an “outrage candidate.” Rashida wants to do a lot of good things that I would like to see done. The fact she can’t find more people who want to be involved in those things isn’t her fault, it is actually my belief that it is the purpose of the Democratic Party to stop them from happening. Conversely, the fact that most of Congress wants to do bad things that she doesn’t choose to get involved with is a good thing about her. Either way, I’d much sooner indict that intuition than her.

    I don’t know if they love Palestinian blood on their hands to the tune of hundreds of thousands of people, but they believe enough in the importance of allowing Israel to do it that they allowed it to hurt their chances in the election and turn off people in their party who should be allies, like Tlaib, as well as constituencies who historically back them. Either way, an indictment of them, not Tlaib.


    If being a member of a Party meant I had to endorse the people doing a genocide of my people and be a “team player”… that sounds so fucking goofy on its face that I can’t even entertain it as serious, I’m sorry to sound rude about it. If that’s genuinely how you feel, then yes we disagree on a fundamental human level.

    If you - personally - were a lawmaker in a Party, and the Party you were in helped to exterminate your friends, family, neighbors, people in your faith, etc. I would think you were heroic if you stood up to them and a spineless rat if you supported them. If you are someone who feels like it would be your duty to support the Party regardless, then again yes you’re correct we disagree.
     
  18. sophos34

    Prestigious Supporter

    and it’s hilarious being called emotional by a guy who said “enjoy trump”
     
  19. David87

    Prestigious Prestigious

  20.  
    nohandstoholdonto and Orla like this.
  21. Halitosis Jones

    Howdy y'all! Supporter

    I read this thread and this reaffirms my belief the current mindset of the average American voter is populist vibes > populist policy.

    They will vote for Trump because he FEELS like a non-politician that is not backed by special interests while ignoring the fact that Trump is a literal politician who is backed by special interests. But it doesn't matter to them because he feels like he isn't.
     


  22. :chin:
     
  23. MidDave

    I'm Sleepy Supporter

    Not much more exhausting to me than people who make a George Carlin standup bit their entire political ideology. “It’s all fake, you’re all sheep, I’m the smart one who gets that it’s all the corporations maaaannnnnn”
     
  24. Thank god someone came in here and told us that actually Kamala was the lesser of two evils. We've been in here since fall 2015 discussing little else than the lesser of two evils, but I really appreciate Matt dropping by to introduce us to the concept
     
  25. dylan

    Better Luck Next Time Supporter

    Oh god it’s another Freud
     
    sophos34 likes this.