General Politics Discussion (II) [ARCHIVED] • Page 8

NEVR FORG3T

 

I could definitely see TX or AZ getting very close with a hispanic/Latino candidate either on the top of ticket or as vp. I think if Castro had been the vp this year that would have helped a ton with the inspirational motivation to vote and just been better than Tim "I speak spanish" Kaine

I don't think it's going to change the election. That would be chaos and I just don't think it'll happen. I could see a handful of electoral voters either Flipping to Hillary or abstaining. It's more of a send a message type of thing saying that there is NOT a mandate for this president.

I also could see it help in the argument that what's the point of the electoral college, either because they were supposed to save us from this kind of election or if we can't trust them then why have them. Wither way I think helps move more toward a popular vote model.

 

that was great, except i have no plans to give donald trump a chance. i hope every day of his presidency is hell.

 

Meanwhile Bernie backed off and let them have the mic. Set a pretty clear distinction for me between Bernie and his supporters right from the start.

 

then i feel like we should instead listen to and elevate those other people who are saying the same thing, and not ones who are repeatedly homophobic, sexist, etc

 

It's clear that distinction is not universally shared. I'm just saying from what I am seeing on my Twitter feed -- Bernie Sanders is not as well respected by black progressives as white.

 

Subbin x2.

 

We can do both. If you wanna cut out black voices for what they've said in the past, fine. I'm not going to. As has been discussed in detail in these threads before there are many systematic reasons for sexism and homophobia in marginalized communities, but that alone is not going to make me close my ears to what they are saying. If you want only pure voices in your revolution, that's fine. I'm listening to everyone even if I don't agree with specific parts, I believe if all you do is filter your entire reality and remove everything you may find distasteful, you'll miss what's actually happening.

I don't agree with everything Dom says in these threads and I don't hold his past against him. But I fucking listen. As I said, you do you.

 

i'm not asking for "only pure voices" dawg come on. this is not like a once and done condemnation, the dude has a long long history of saying shitty, awful things and being totally unapologetic about it. I really feel like this is not an issue of me policing black voices. certainly if any poc disagree please let me know. but i feel like this is actually just like, holding intersectional accountability of other activists? like as a queer person i'm pretty uncomfortable with that and I would like instead to give a platform to the plenty of black people who say the exact same thing, but also don't have a very long past of homophobia. i imagine women, including woc, feel the same way given his numerous offensive comments on women.

 

If you don't wanna listen to his and the hundreds if not thousands of people in his comments agreeing about Bernie and their concerns because of his past. Fine. I'm listening. I don't have to agree with any of his past comments to find specific things being said now to him, in response to him, important.

 

again it's not that i'm not listening to him lol i dont know where you're getting that from. shit i agree with him. plenty of other people say it and i agree with them too. i'd prefer to focus on elevating the voices of the people who agree with him and with whom i agree but that also aren't super shitty in other aspects.

 

right. this is certainly true. And I don't think Sanders is completely blameless in the matter either, he absolutely could've made more of an effort to reach out to the black vote and black progressives. I also think the actions of his supporters in situations like this probably hurt him even if Sanders himself handle the situation properly.

But I don't think black progressives supported Hillary over Sanders. If anything, they were simply skeptical of both of them while white progressives ate up everything Sanders said.

 

I'm not telling you what to do. Focus on whoever you want. I'm not policing black voices in expressing anger in the present because of their past comments. You can disagree all you want. Doesn't mean I condone the past comments, doesn't mean I agree with them. But if you wanna know what people are saying out there, I think you're gonna have to deal with the reality. I choose not to live in an echo chamber for four years and cut out people I disagree with on one thing and not listen to what they are saying about another. That's my choice. You get to make your own.

 

watching snl and saw a jimmy fallon ad and got visibly ill

 

I'm concerned about the impact of voter suppression laws on moving to a popular vote style election.

 

idk man if I had a queer person who had a history of saying super racist shit, i wouldn't support him even when he was right about lgbtq issues.

again i don't understand why you keep making this about my ignoring black perspectives on Bernie or ignoring reality. i'm not suggesting a fucking echo chamber. what he is saying now, i agree with. what he has said in the past, repeatedly, makes me deeply uncomfortable that he is the person you want to share here.

 

I didn't say *support.* I said *listen to.*

I posted one tweet and I think that thread and the black voices off of it are important to listen to and understand. Do they include people that have bad stuff in their timelines? Probably. Most people out there do.

 

Sub, hope everyone's hanging there

 

I'm in this endless loop where reading about the election and all the thinkpieces is depressing me, but at the same time nothing else seems important enough to focus on so I've just been miserable but I can't stop.

 

That's funny, I figured he would have a pretty big audience with some of the regulars in this thread tbh. Personally for me he's too biased to use as a regular source of info, but he can be informative/entertaining in small doses.

 

ok. i meant them in the same sense. regardless. there are so many other black voices, saying the same thing he is saying, that it is baffling to me that you stake this much ground in elevating the (valid) perspective of a deeply homophobic, misogynistic man.

 

I can't stand him.

 

I'm still catching up on the last 10 pages of the old thread, but I want to share this. A friend living and studying (international relations) in Moscow wrote a really good write up of Russian reactions to Trump winning – from the Kremlin to the Duma, as well as the liberal opposition in Russian and normal Russians' responses.

Russian Reactions to Trump's Election

 

He's definitely extremely smug, I'll say that much. Far from the only figure in the old or new media to have that trait though.