Taylor Swift - The Tortured Poets Department (April 19, 2024) Album • Page 129

Appreciate the perspective! This is all so interesting to me, because it seems like the lyrics are the big selling point of this album for you, but I find her lyrical work on this album to be so sloppy and so inconsistent, sometimes to the point of being downright bad. Even some of the songs I really like ("But Daddy I Love Him Comes to Mind") occasionally buckle under the weight of just too many words (I really can't help but roll my eyes at the "Sanctimoniously performing soliloquies I'll never see" line, for instance). And man, the sports metaphors she's trying to use to write about the Travis relationship are some of her clunkiest moments as a writer. Woof.

I remember being worried when she linked up with Max Martin the first time that his "melodic math" thing would drown out the detail-rich aspects of her songwriting that I found so rewarding on Red and Speak Now. But the thing I didn't really realize at the time was that she was already coming from a songwriting tradition (country) that really values economical writing. Weirdly, it's these later pop records of hers (Midnights and Tortured Poets) that feel like they've lost that economy.

My opinion is that she was relaying more information in single phrases of songs like "Mine" ("You made a rebel of a careless man's careful daughter") or "All Too Well" (the refrigerator light line) than she accomplishes in entire verses or bridges on this album. My biggest problem with Tortured Poets, I think, is that it really feels to me like someone who's heard over and over again that they're an incredible writer, and then they are so high on their own supply that they forget a lot of the finesse and discipline that actually made them an incredible writer in the first place.

 

Yeah it's the lyrics and storytelling that are what really elevates it for me but it's not so much that the writing here is significantly better than she's ever been, songs like "Mine" and "All Too Well" are absolutely as good as anything here, but she's never had a full album of those top tier songs for me before and this is easily the closest she's come. So it's funny that one of your criticisms is inconsistency because although this has its weak moments for sure, the hit ratio for me is much higher than usual. "The Alchemy" is easily my least favourite song across the entire Anthology but I think she has something like that on every one of her albums and usually a handful more.

Also the topics themselves just speak to me more here, it feels like her most personal album or at least the one where her writing was necessary for her to work through something. I do think she's probably spent less time worrying about it being economical or palatable and more about exploring what she's going through which just makes for a more rewarding listen to me. I feel the pain, the longing, the hope, the anger, the sadness, more here than in any of her other records. The way she explores all the different moments and emotions she went through in this period of time just hits right for me and builds more of an overarching narrative than I usually get from her.

I don't really feel like her knack for writing great lines has disappeared at all here, I just feel like there's more of them haha. That line in "But Daddy I Love Him" is one I've seen a few people have issues with but I personally love, it's right in the middle of one of my favourite moments on the record and I'm not sure how she could have written that sentiment any better or more succinctly.

Also I should say its not just the lyrics by themselves but how they're sung, the emotion in her voice and how the music supports and captures the essence of the song. Which is pretty obvious because that's how music works but really every element here does enhance the other which is true of all of her best work.

 

It sounds like you love this album for basically the same reasons I love Red, an album I know you've got some issues with. That's the one where the emotions always hit the hardest for me, and the one where I really love all the songs. So, different strokes, I guess!

I do like this album; I listened to it today and I think it's better suited to fall than spring, so I was appreciating it more. The cuts for me are "Florida" (her and Florence are oil and water to me; they just don't mix), "I Can Fix Him..." (the one complete dud on the main album, IMO), and "The Alchemy" (swap in "So High School" there for the same vibes with more charm).

I'm still pretty mixed on the second disc. A lot of it just sounds so, so samey to my ears. I think I'm really ready for the Dessner partnership to be over.

 

Yeah a lot of your writing about why Red works so well for you resonates for me with this album. It's messy and sprawling but it paints such a vivid picture of heartbreak that I can't help but love it.

Man I love "Florida", that song gets me so hyped haha. I think I felt like they clashed a bit when I was first getting into the album but they work so well together for me now. "The Alchemy" is an easy cut and I was going to say I'm not sure if "So High School" would really fit sonically there but I actually think the complete change in vibe would be really cool to show her moving on. "I Can Fix Him.." is probably my second least favourite on the main album but I like it enough and it's grown on me a lot.

The second disc really does feel more like outtakes and bonus tracks and does get a bit samey but I've grown to love so many of those songs that it doesn't bother me that much. I think the main part where it's an issue is the last 5 songs where like 4 of them are mostly piano based so even though I really like most of them it does get a bit tiresome.

 

I can do it with a broken heart came on today on shuffle. Bangerrrrrr

 

I love a piano ballad; more than most, probably! But there are simply too many of them on this album, and I think Aaron Dessner has a problem (here and on National albums) of coming up with very simple, repetitive, and similar piano backdrops that don't leave a ton of room for good melodies to take root. I think there are interesting lyrical things on that second disc, but I wish the songs themselves were better.

It also has "Thank You Amy," my least favorite Taylor Swift song ever.

 

There’s some stinkers/skips/mid stuff for sure but the following are top tier taytay:

Title track
My boy
Down bad
Daddy
London
Guilty as sin
Broken heart
Smallest man
Clara bow
Black dog
Albatross
High school
People’s windows
Peter

 

I was thinking last night after the phrase was used in here, “pantheon Taylor songs.” She’s got ~245 recognized songs before the two new vaults surface. What percentage of that is “pantheon”?

 

Absolutely nailed it with this - you've managed to verbalise it better than I ever could

 

Top 50

 

I was thinking it would be in that 25-50 range.

By that metric, TTPD has two songs in my personal pantheon, haha.

 

I've hardly dipped my toe into this thread - but I'm always astounded by the vastly differing range of personal opinions about her best songs

Personally - the songs I would consider 'pantheon' from this would be 'Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus', 'Peter' and 'But Daddy I Love Him'

I feel like a massive contrarian favouriting a song like Chloe (because nobody ever seems to mention it) but to me it just has that Taylor magic sprinkled all over it - My favourite song of hers since Evermore

 

I’d call top 10% (so 25ish songs) the pantheon (has the connotation of elite-ness, which should be selective) and the top 20-25% are the “Taylor playlist” songs. A bit restrictive for a playlist but that’s the superlative that came to mind.

I love Chloe but peter sounds so goofy and funny to me lol. To this day I still think it’s beyond reason that daddy wasn’t the first or second single.

 

Probably three for me: "But Daddy I Love Him," "The Black Dog," and "Clara Bow." Outside shot for "Guilty as Sin."

Meanwhile, I'm not sure anything from Midnights would make my top 50 Taylor songs. Maybe "You're on Your Own Kid."

 

Clara and Broken Heart, here. I have Black Dog and But Daddy just outside my top 50 at the moment.

I should revisit that list I made a year ago and see if it still holds. I just added the TTPD songs in and didn’t focus too much on the rest.

 

I am honestly not sure what my number 1 Taylor song would be right now.

 

Me!

 

You're right, you are my favorite Taylor Swift song, Jason.

 

Lol I forgot about the Kim song on the album and that her mom wished she was dead.

Cue that tweet that I'm gonna butcher that says how the vma moment was kinda weird but we didn't expect it to consume pop culture until the end of time

 

Just popping in to say I’ve got an extra sealed copy of each vinyl variant I’m trying to get rid of for what I paid if anyone’s collecting them. Full disclosure, I’m likely just going to pick up the Anthology version instead.

 

loml
The Black Dog
But Daddy I Love Him
Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus
So Long, London
I Can Do It With a Broken Heart
The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived
Guilty As Sin?
The Tortured Poets Department
Down Bad
Fortnight
So High School
How Did It End?
Florida!!!

Are the songs from this that make my top 50.

Speak Now - 6
Red - 6
Folklore - 5
1989 - 5
Evermore - 4
Fearless - 4
Lover - 4
Midnights - 2
Reputation - 0
Taylor Swift - 0

Is how many the other albums have in there. I've still not explored many of the vault tracks or b-sides though so I probably have a smaller set of songs than some of you.

 

A post that isn’t merch holy shit

 

I wonder how long she needs to get back in shape for this specific tour. As an endurance runner I would love to see her cardio work