General Politics Discussion (XI) [ARCHIVED] World • Page 1409

And my argument would be that we should trust that not only because it's the obvious moral thing to do, but we just saw Trump not lose his base, but actively grow it, when he talked about us not sending weapons all over the world. Now, his reasoning for all of that, and what he actually did, is all over the place. But I remain unconvinced that an anti-war message is a death blow to a campaign. I think (most?) voters would not like that we sent billions of dollars that's being used to kill kids while their roads and bridges look like shit. Some of those same voters would probably be mad if that money went to giving kids free lunch too. But I guess I don't care about appeasing them?

 

I agree with this - the Democratic Party supports Israel because they are a party of American imperialism and Israel is a vital part of that. However, Israel can go too far and risk “fucking up the money” so to speak and the Democratic Party has shown before that they can reign them in without it really impacting the Party’s political fortunes.

So when they support what Israel is doing right now, it is because the support what Israel is doing. My personal feeling is that a feature of all imperialism is the eventual eradication of the indigenous people, and October 7th is used as a smokescreen to cover that.

 

That’s a cute narrative but here on the ground in St. Louis the issues with Cori bush, valid or not, went far beyond her support for Gaza. Yeah the AIPAC propped up Bell but the people in St. Louis were hungry for anyone who isn’t Bush

 

If Americans were on the same page about this a third party would win, but alas. Politics is just as much marketing as anything else

 

Thanks for adding some local insight I appreciate it

 

Yeah, I think it was back in the spring that polling showed most Americans thought "enough is enough, this needs to stop".

As has been discussed in here ad nauseum, it's not the number 1 issue for most people in the US but it is becoming a bigger issue and is a sizable issue in one of the most important states this election (Michigan).

It feels gross to be discussing a genocide in terms of the political calculus surrounding supporting or opposing it, but if the political calculus actually valued representing the people and what they want then I think the decision could be different.

 

I just think we should all do what we believe is right and for me that’s not voting for anybody (I don’t believe in third parties and that not voting for anybody sends a stronger message)

 

I don’t know, it’s shocking to me Trump even has as much support as he has, it’s gotta come from somewhere. You wouldn’t THINK so but….

 

My third party is going to kick ass. Watch this space.

 

I just remember Warren and Bernie having “no experience in foreign policy” and Biden being “tough on foreign policy” was a major factor in Biden winning that primary so I really do have questions about how much Dem voters are monolithically anti war. Tons of people, especially those in older generations, support liberal policy domestically but want to maintain military muscle overseas.

 

And this could just be hopium/kopium/naivete, but a part of me does think that Kamala's hands are a bit tied on this currently given her role as VP and the current administration's unwavering support of Israel.

 

I wonder how much of this we over-index on or decide after the fact. Obama was supposedly the same "weak" and easily beat the "strong" McCain ... because the election ended up becoming about the economy and issues at home. I dunno, maybe I'm projecting some, but I'm starting to question the conventional wisdom that the country, as a whole, or even in the places that are deciding elections, have some underlying never ending blood thirst for war and sending their tax money away to perpetuate it. Could be wishcasting. But I do wish people would try it, if not because I think it is the obvious moral thing, but I think it could actually be politically positive as well.

 

it’s a genocide, quit dismissing it as some annoying thing that people need to get over.

 

I think it’s more that she just agrees with it honestly

 

I think Kamala is going to win on vibes, because Trump is an historically unpopular candidate and her brains didn’t fall out of her head on national television, and her last name isn’t Clinton. But if she loses, it’s going to be because she alienated - not even leftists! - but just regular people who are put my off by parties that have a commitment to genocide. That’s my prediction and its caveat.

 

Plenty of Dems love cops and the military, in my opinion this is related to that haha

 

i think the major factor was Obama making calls and the Dems finding Biden the best choice.

but I agree, liberal voters are major war hawks as well.

 

I don’t mean to be a Debbie downer but I do think believing we can actually sway Kamala on foreign policy is wishful thinking. A lot of the influence she has right now comes from over a decade of pandering to pro-Israel interests. It’s not just one issue of many, it’s a major pillar of how she tried to legitimize herself as someone who can make “tough decisions” in leadership. Much like how Biden got ahead by being “tough on crime” in the early 90s and expanding our prison complex and cops’ discretion to make arrests

 

take out the /s and Matt Yglesias would retweet this

 

I would say, I think liberal voters are warhawks because they feel that voting for the Democratic Party is what smart people do, and the Democratic Party is a hawkish party. I don’t think that most liberal voters are demanding war and will punish the party for not pursuing it.

Editing to say, that doesn’t absolve a single one of them.

 

but we're being asked to vote for her administration not biden's

 

You're probably right, but I also don't know how much politicians act on their own beliefs vs. going with what they're told is the most politically expedient.

And thinking about it from that (again, admittedly gross) angle, I think there's just a lot of uncertainty within the party (meaning their advisors, consultants, and donors) of what splitting with the administration that she's currently part of will do with respect to the upcoming election, especially with only about 10 weeks to go.