General Politics Discussion (XI) [ARCHIVED] World • Page 1340

I am glad people are supporting the leftward shifts the Democratic Party is showing/doing on some issues. I would like those people to also make sure they are pressuring Dems to do something different about their Israel policy (and other policy where the Dems aren't shifting left as much). But I also understand why things like Harris meeting with movement leaders a couple weeks ago only for those people and Harris coms people to say two completely different things were said at that meeting, happen. If she really did say that to them in private, it's good news and also probably told them I can't go public with that yet and to do your protest and I will respond in kind. If the leaders were lying about what she said and she never really said that, it was a good tactic to try and force the issue, even if it may have burned some bridges.

 

I just want my politicians to have the moral fiber of Kourtney.

But apparently that’s too much to ask.

 

Are these “leftward shifts” in the room with us right now

 

I promise you I read all that, but this is exactly the kind of ruminating and navel gazing that makes it seem like this issue is just a vehicle for you to do mental gymnastics.
I'm not even saying you're wrong or what you say doesn't make sense but there's literally people dying and I don't think finding excuses for people not to care is the game rn.

 

I said this earlier but the problem with this is they have voter data, they know who does and doesn't vote. If you haven't been voting for them before/or just haven't voted period before, they're not going to believe they can win your vote. It'd be like me telling the Republican Party they can win my vote if they just dump Trump as the candidate. They have my voting record, they're not going to believe that lol. It sucks but it's true. They're always going to cater to the most frequent, reliable voters, and especially the ones that have shown propensity to vote for their candidates. Hence why all of our leaders are older than dirt.

I don't think leveraging your vote is a bad thing, but it can lead to some negative consequences (see: Trump), and probably need the right set of circumstances for it to work. Is that circumstance Michigan in 2024? I truly don't know.

 

It's not a game, it's trying to figure out how to get people to care. Can't do that without identifying the underlying problem first. Well, maybe you can. But I think it's important to understand what's driving it.

 

Now that i think about it. Given how the US was basically dragged kicking and screaming into abiding by an arms embargo on apartheid South Africa it makes sense that organize in other countries will get the most material results

 

Totally read as leftward shits

 

That’s where the organizing part comes into play. To take away said reliable votes that haven’t always been the most reliable and make known things that aren’t in their data.

 

New punk band name

 

Just reposting this here for no particular reason.

 

Right which brings us full circle to, how do your organize more people and peel off more people into your movement and make the electeds feel the pressure? That's what I was commenting on. I don't think alienating those people via "the discourse" is a good idea just because people tend to be defensive and shitty when they feel like they're being personally attacked even though they aren't actually being personally attacked. I'm reminded of all the times i've had to hand hold fellow white people through the idea of racism not being a personal attribute all the time but rather an ideology and/or action that you don't have to hate people of color to do/participate in. I got more people in my life to understand it that way rather than just saying hey you're being racist right now fuck off lol

 

No you weren't. You were telling me I wasn't helping anything. I'm not going to write 1000 words in response to that

 

Nobody in here is saying not to hold protests though, which is what King is directly responding to in that letter and in that part in particular.

Funnily enough, in that letter he points out that asking them to postpone now is dumb because they had already postponed twice to make sure their protests couldn't be used as fodder/an excuse in case Bull Conner won the mayoral election.

 

What genre tho.

 

lol. It does not bring us back full circle. You do out reach, union work, table, pamphlet, propagandize, teach ins, community work, demonstrate. people are doing it now! Doesn’t mean it will work. But people are doing the things! It’s a not There needs to be more of it and there needs to be critique and self critique of it to improve upkeep it. Your solution does not involve being organized. It is not a solution at all!

 

Please keep up. No one thinks this.

I understand all of this point of view, believe it or not you're not the first one to express it. I am asking you again to imagine you are saying this in Nazi Germany in 1939. Because you are. The United States is committing a holocaust and you are saying it's okay to be excited for the person in charge of it. This is a fact. I'm sorry you don't feel your values are strong enough to oppose the person doing the holocaust.

 

So yes. Thank you. Enjoy the videos of children killed by Kamalabombs

 

They're Kamalabombs already?

 

been kamalabombs

 

They're AOCBombs now. She was on stage saying "Kamala is pushing for a ceasefire," which is a lie, a bald face, knowing lie in service of genocide, and people were in here cheering her.

 

My point was you need to be able to reach new people with some of that stuff, and it makes it harder to do if you're alienating the people more likely to agree with you! There's a ceiling to how many people are out there and be mobilized, you don't want to artificially lower that ceiling in any way.

 

This logic ends with people rallying for nothing based off no principles

 

The whole thing about “republicans definitely won’t do a ceasefire. dems give us a better chance” thing is that, 1. both parties range from fine with the genocide but also deniers and apologists to full throated genocide supporters. And 2. The better chance of ceasefire under dems is by a very small marginal percentage and you’re counting on that very small marginal percentage. You’re all in on that very small marginal percentage of the party that is once again, doing the genocide. Personally I would not hang my hat on that very small marginal percentage that makes them a very fractional percentage less evil then the gop.

 

I disagree.