Dune: Part Two (Denis Villeneuve, March 1st, 2024) • Page 53

The more I think about it, the story just sucks. Both in the book and the movie. I think it's stupid that the main conflict is Paul fighting the predetermined outcome of him being a dictator. It's just not compelling.

Prophecy isn't a good plot device in this story. The plot seems to be driven so much by prophecy and not by meaningful, well written events that shape the characters in interesting ways. Plot points feel forced and not organic.

 

Paul's descent into dictatorship in the movie is dumb too. It happens much too fast. He resists it's urge pretty well until he drinks the living water and then goes full dictator mode. The holy water is a mcguffin that takes the place of real character development. I think more non-miraculous character-building events to show his decent into evil would've been more interesting.

 

It bugged me that all the Fremen seemed to have some kind of middle eastern accent and then Zendaya had a modern casual way of speaking.

 

But it isn't explained why Paul needs to make that political move? He defeated the emperor's army, killed the baron and his nephew, and got the emperor to bow to him. It seems like he could be the emperor and have Chani at his side. I know that in the book there's more political context but in the movie it doesn't seem to make sense.

 

Maybe some slice of life scenes could've been good to show the passing of time. I couldn't tell if Paul had been with the Fremen for days? Months? Years? In the books he has a kid with Chani, but in the movie that time is all a blur. It seems like the Fremen adopt him too fast.

Many of the victories feel too easy and unearned. Want to join the Fremen? You're in! Need to defeat the emperor's forces and all of the other houses? Barely an inconvenience!

 

The story is incredible. Herbert explores maximizing human potential through various systems via the BG, Mentats, and the warrior classes that develop from ultra harsh environments. It has elements of hard science in the ecology of the planet, and deals with religion as a powerful force in a way that most sci-fi does not, or had not up to that point. All set against the backdrop of an epic space drama that managed to capture the nascent political situation in the Middle East at the time of its writing.

As far as Paul, he was the result of a eugenics program that spanned generations, and it’s striking how the BG react to the reality of what they’ve unleashed with Paul and Alia.

There is so much to chew on in just one book that’s it’s almost impossible that FH pulled it off.

 

This thread makes me wanna puke right now. Anyways, I'm bummed that I missed out on seeing this in IMAX for a third time.

 

I agree that FH has many good ideas that have the makings of something good. He just doesn't pull them all together in a compelling way. Granted, I've only read the first Dune book

 

I don’t even know how to respond to that.

 

The only logical way to respond is to agree with my based opinion that the book sucks and that time will prove me right /s (this is radiodead's burner troll account lol jk)

 

You can dislike Dune thats fine, theres plenty of valid critisims to have about it. Its written with a unique voice with a prose and characterisations that arguably dont fit into conventions of good writing, its also the only book with all the stuff @LightWithoutHeat said.
Ive been pretty heisitant to recomend it to people since the story is straight up white saviour with eugenics and whether or not you agree with whats being said about it, thats still whats happening.

 

Isn't it like the opposite of white saviour though since he's actually going to get billions of those people killed?

 

Not everything needs to be completely obvious and spelled out for the audience. The film does more than enough to explain what's happening with these characters and why things shift in the way they do. Part of the strength of the film in my opinion is that it leaves things slightly ambiguous.

 

Eventually, you still have to read over 1000 pages of white saviouring before that starts to happen.

If you dont like war movies you arent going to enjoy anti-war movies, because you still have to watch a war happen.

 

If anything, Kynes and his father are the “white saviors” of the story. Paul is mostly along for the ride until the very end, and the Fremen don’t exactly need him. They had their multi-generational plan to transform Arrakis well underway before he shows up, and they are able to easily manage the Harkonnens and Sadaukar without him.

 

yes its really fun to think about it having layers of white saviours

Even funnier that they cast Kynes as a black women in part 1

 

@Friendjamin it seems like you didn’t pay attention to the movie or just straight up don’t like it/the book because a lot of your complaints aren’t valid. If you pay attention it’s very clear he’s been with the Fremen for 7-8 months especially given how pregnant Lady Jessica is at the end.

 

Pulling my hair out reading some of these takes

 

Yeah, I get that things can be ambiguous. I misworded my criticism. My criticism isn’t that it should’ve been obvious. My criticism is that without more context, Paul’s decision didn’t make logical sense.

 

Good point about the pregnancy showing the passage of time.

 

@imthegrimace You’re right about me straight up not liking the movie and the book. But that doesn’t mean my complaints aren’t valid.

 

Y’all are drunk on that worm juice about this movie lol


But really, I’m glad you like it. I like having conversations about it