American Football - American Football (October 21, 2016) Album • Page 24

Yeah the more I read it the more condescending it sounds. Not a good apology at all

 

the "people who know me know I'm not ______" is the oldest and lamest cop out ever

 

Hypocritical post

 

I'm glad that he at least admitted he is misguided lol

 

do tell

 

ruh roh

 

im going to guess it has something to do with me being white and emo

 

I just don't think saying "white" and "straight" in a negative connotation adds anything positive to the conversation, if anything it just plays more into the division/separation of humans and different groups. I think your intentions are good but I just think it's a kind of mirrored behavior that doesn't set a great example

 

well, as someone who isnt straight btw, its obvious that the majority of his fans and frankly emo songwriters are straight white dudes. I dont see the issue in simply stating something that is true, hes a straight white dude who doesnt understand why his comment could come across as toxic and aggressive towards women. I'm not necessarily saying that being a straight white guy is a negative thing, but a lot of negative social issues stem from straight whites guys exuding privilege and this is one of those cases. I dont see how that makes me hypocritical, nor do I particularly care about "setting a good example" when what the root of the issue is is a problematic straight white dude saying problematic things on his public platform.

 

I understand your perspective but I feel like in some situations people are quick to assume racist/sexist motives (with reason since both are unfortunately so prevalent) when sometimes it really is as simple as someone being a shitty person. In this case, I think his tweet was definitely in bad taste but I feel like he most likely would have said the same if it were Kanye, I really don't think it was an attack on her as a woman, but I do see how it could be taken that way and I think he should understand that as well. Ultimately it was a poor choice and his appology wasn't perfect but at least he did make an effort, which is more than can be said for some worse offenders in the scene.

 

But the reason he's a shitty person is he's being sexist? Also, I'm getting super tired of this "if it were a man he would've said the same thing!" Narrative that keeps floating around. The fact of the matter is, a woman was held AT GUNPOINT, bound and gagged and was robbed. He then made an incredibly tasteless joke at her expense that had extremely sexist undertones, and is now basically fake apologizing for it. He's not making an effort at all. Even if he were, that doesn't excuse what he said nor does it redeem him for being a super shitty dude

 

Please explain the sexist undertones because as far as I can see, his tweet addressed her as a person without any mention of her being a woman (correct me if I'm wrong). Taking the fact that she is a woman and concluding that what he said is sexist is just conjecture, an assumption without factual proof. For all we know, he saw the headline, sent out a tweet trying to be funny without really thinking of the consequences and eventually he deleted it and apologized. All humans make mistakes, some do shittier things than others, does that automatically mean someone should be labeled as a shitty dude forever? Are people not capable of change and learning from their mistakes ? Does one tweet in poor taste negate the good things he has done enough to label him in such a black and white way? I personally don't think so and I think it's an overly simplified way of assessing another human

 

he advocated and made light of the physical harm she was in. that is sexist. plain and simple. its gross and there isnt any need for defending what he said. im aware that humans make mistakes, but being sexist is a good way to land on my shit list. if you dont have a problem with it, fine. we all have problematic favs. that doesnt excuse what he did, and saying hes done "good things" as some sort of way to balance out his sexist joke is a bad look. he has a history of posting frankly shitty things on social media to begin with, at least from what ive seen, and this was the final nail in the coffin for me.

 

I posted this earlier in a text message but I'll post it here as well, for those that care.

Well, here's the thing. We all have problematic faves. I love Kanye West. Love him. His music, his advocacy, etc. is he problematic? As fuck. Can he be misogynistic? Absolutely. But given the context of being a black man in america, I can see WHY he's like that. He's since tried to rectify it, getting married has helped with that, but he still has those issues and I grapple with enjoying him as an artist because of that. Do I think less of people that love American Football? Of course not, but it's fair to at least acknowledge the problematic behavior and make it clear that you understand it and are willing to accept it. Now, with that said, Mike Kinsella has always been kind of a douche on social media and this has just further irritated that feeling for me. It's a bit harder for me to excuse this behavior from straight white guys that are unwilling to understand and learn. It's ok to enjoy and love problematic artists, but it's up to you to draw those conclusions as to whether you want to enjoy and accept them for what they are.

 

I respect this and can agree with it, although to be fair, everyone is the way they are as a person as a result of a variety of factors external to themselves. From what I've seen, his previous tweets mostly were just attempts at humor/not taking things seriously (which people could use more of at times), this is the first time I've seen him say something legitimately offensive but I don't follow him so I could be wrong

 

Right, our surrounding and what not can shape us BUT when you're discussing minorities, particularly minorities in America, it's a different story. As a white person, and someone who was born a male, I'll never ever understand the struggles of women nor PoC. Therefore, it's not my place to comment on how they should feel regarding these situations nor is it fair for me to criticize them for being offended at something that directly affects them. At the same time, when I see straight white guys making jokes at the expense of minorities, I get upset and irritated because they're using their privledge to make someone else the butt of a joke, especially one that involved a woman directly in harms way. But I appreciate this calm discussion we've had about this.

 

Midterms are killing me this week, i still havnt found the time to listen to this.

 

Totally agree with this. I think at the same time, someone can make a comment like this without being aware of the kind of impact it can have on these groups, without really thinking about it, and that's when someone who has a better understanding might step in and provide some education on the bigger picture of the effect certain comments can have (I think maybe some people did that on Twitter?). If at that point, the offender doesn't attempt to understand that and accept the critique, THEN I would feel like they are actually a bad person.

 

Also really into this after a few listens, particularly the first 3/last three tracks. Love the guitar work

 

fair enough, my friend

 

Same

 

Bad timing but still funny.

 

I can't say I personally interpreted his tweet as being misogynistic, and I certainly don't believe that was his intention. That said, it was still utterly stupid and he clearly should have retracted and apologised instead of doubling-down. It's probably changed my perception of him in that it's exposed his politics and social views as being quite immature, but I can't say it's going to stop me listening to and enjoying his music. If I expected the artists I listen to to be morally unimpeachable, I don't think there'd be too many left.

 

tweet was super super shitty (especially considering mike is also a father with a significant other) and the twitter reaction to the robbery in general has been nothing but horrible and telling of a lot of people

separately, halfway in and the album sounds pretty good so far

 

Loving this album