Invasion of Ukraine • Page 57

The US can deny the request if it so pleases, but as NATO is a defense pact, if a country decides it wants to join without being forced by NATO to do so, then it has every right to walk through that process.

I don’t think the US should automatically decline a country that is seeking defense. The US shouldn’t be advocating it but if a country legitimately feels threatened then that shouldn’t be a breach of the promise the US made because that’s on Ukraine, not the US.

The promise should be seen as a non-advocacy, not a “well, tough luck for you. You can’t join.”

Yeah, the US influenced the leader and that’s a whole other issue that won’t solve the current crisis because that fire has been lit. According to Moscow Times, there is large public support within Ukraine for joining NATO. And if the citizens desire it, well….that’s their autonomy.

Ukrainians’ Support for Joining NATO Hits Record High – Poll - The Moscow Times

 

“NATO shouldn’t exist.”

Putin's top spokesman slapped down warlord Kadyrov's call to use nuclear weapons

I’m sure Eastern Europe is convinced with neighbors like that.

I, myself, am not pro-NATO. I’m for the US keeping its promise and not advocating for NATO expansion.

I, however, do not blame Russia’s neighbors if they do not feel like they can remain neutral. The rope has been tugged. The only way I see this ending if if both the US and Russia let Ukraine choose (matter of influence is inevitable at this point). If Ukraine chooses Russia then tough luck for the US. If Ukraine chooses NATO then tough luck for Russia.

 

Kadyrov isn't exactly a neighbor to any Eastern Europeans but sure, the Russian government is threatening to it's neighbors, let's do a deep dive into the conditions that government came out of and who created them. Do we think it was good for Ukraine that Western capital plundered and looted it's most powerful neighbor with impunity for a decade?

 

To answer your question, no. I don’t think it was good what Western capital has done to Ukraine’s neighbor.

What has happened has happened and the US shouldn’t avoid scrutiny. I’m here for it.

But when it comes to the current ongoing matter of Ukraine, their influence to join NATO wasn’t solely the US. It was also the threat they felt from Russia and the only way this is solved is if both the US and Russia let Ukraine decide what it wants to do. As much as I’d like to see this situation fizzle out and Ukraine remains Ukraine without joining NATO or Russia, things have escalated way too much for the people of Ukraine to not pick a side.

The influence that has happened, while important to be aware of to avoid future similar conflicts, doesn’t help to solve the ongoing matter. What matters is what Ukraine citizens want here and now because that’s the only way this is settled without something disastrous happening.

 

Russian Orcs of Mordor slowly collapsing - ya love to see it

 

Yeah, this has been a weird discourse since this whole war started considering Greece unilaterally held up Macedonia's NATO membership solely because Greece didn't like the country's name less than five years ago. It only takes one country to deny NATO membership to a country and it doesn't even have to be for a good reason like, I don't know, attempting to avert nuclear war!

 

You think this is good? That would mean nuclear war and then we're all dead.

 

The torpedoes wouldn’t be ready for another 5 years.

 

I really hope this is true. I was under the impression that everything went on-line this year...

 

NATO fears Russia preparing to test Poseidon nuclear torpedo for the first time

Hans Christensen, director of the Nuclear Information Project at the Federation of American Scientists, said the torpedoes are still under development. According to him, the combat deployment of Poseidons is possible no earlier than the second half of this decade.

 

The sabotage of gas pipelines were a 'warning shot' from Putin to the West, and should brace for more subterfuge, Russia experts warn

 

"Wladimir Putin - War criminal, head of the Russian regime."

Seems like Poland isn't fucking around anymore.

 

I feel as bad for the Russian citizens as I do the Ukrainians. They are going to go through some mud.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing hate crimes against Russians in the EU, unfortunately.

All it takes it someone like Putin to continue to piss of Europeans and they’re going to release that anger in the wrong way.

 

Yes, you’re right. If Putin is the first to launch a nuke it will be extremely bad. If the US makes counter-threats to try to deter him, I don’t see that as bad.

Scare your enemy to get them to back down. If there is a nuclear conflict it WILL be because Putin made the first move in using nukes. Not because of threats against Putin if he chooses to do so.

 

I'm not sure why you feel the need to continuously jump to the defence of the US empire. The US/NATO is massively responsible for provoking this conflict, and if it goes nuclear, the policy of escalation they have pursued will be largely to blame. Obviously Putin also shares responsibility for this crisis.

 

Pointing the nuclear blame to the guy who IS making the nuclear threats isn’t defending those who are not making nuclear threats. It’s giving credit where credit’s due. Putin is the one threatening nuclear war. If nuclear war happens it’s because he pulled the trigger.

No one is to blame for nuclear war except the one who unnecessarily uses nuclear weapons without precedent.

Earth has had many crisis points since the creation of nuclear weapons and nuclear war hasn’t broke out. Putin would be the first one in this crisis with Ukraine to use one. He would be responsible.