General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 420

No, but I wasn't necessarily referring to gaining policy concessions from Hillary; rather, I'm referring to the work of changing the balances of forces on the liberal/left. Right now, the dialogue is between the reactionary right and the neoliberal center. As Trump isn't going to win, the fight needs to be between the socialist left/left-wing and the neoliberal center so as to change the terms of the debate. The way liberals are acting at the moment allows the alt-right to be the only anti-establishment game in town, which can't be the case, particularly given Hillary's record on black lives, gay and trans rights, war, poverty, class, etc. There needs to be a left flank that argues that we are not with her and we want to achieve something that goes beyond triangulation.

 

How can you so conclusively state she will win? This is a common consensus I see among leftists but I know individuals like myself (the "stop trump first" cohort) lack that confidence. Just curious if this is a hunch you have or are you referencing elections similar to this one.

 

I guess I don't see what this has to do with the 538 projection and your response to it. Fair enough though.

 

powell's emails are completely bonkers

 

"still dicking bimbos"

 

Can't help but read it like

 

still dicking bimbos oh my GOD

 

Still Dicking Bimbos is my Motley Crue cover band name

 

Holy shit

 

Sounds like the name of his comeback rap or 80s hair metal album

Re: "Still Dickin Bimbos"

 

But the main problem with that is there aren't really enough of them to do anything besides guarantee Trump wins.

 

I'm just looking at the polling, which has her in the lead. Despite the polls getting tighter, I think Clinton has the ground game, the money, the infrastructure to beat Trump. Moreover, I think she will devastate him in the debates. He was able to get away with what he did in the republican primary because of the sort of audience he was speaking to, but I don't think he can do the same thing in he upcoming debates, which will make him look even more foolish. Lastly, demographicaly speaking, he just cannot win. He'd have to win something like seventy percent of the white vote in order to bridge the gap he has created with minorities, and he's largely alienated white women. Last I checked, it was around the high forties with the white vote. So, all in all, I think his chances are slim.

As in, Clinton is still the odds on favorite to win, hence this idea about establishing a united front for Clinton can be dispensed with in favor of actually grappling with her and the establishment itself.

 

I don't understand what you're talking about with this response. I'm referring to in the election and afterwards. I'm not referring to third party support, I am referring to movements, political networks, community organizing, etc., to change the course of the debate from policies articulated from the right of center to an active and vibrant left-wing that can intervene in politics.

 

Voting third party or being critical of hillary is not guaranteeing trump wins even if that was what dom meant

 

The math disagrees.

 

In other words, I'm talking about refusing to allow Hillary and the democrat establishment to set the tone and the policy for the future of marginalized, working class people and creating an actual force that can counter their mediocrity.

 

Your first post was about how Clinton should change the conversation. I assumed it was about this election.

 

If Hillary winning depends on people like me voting for her maybe she should make virtually any attempt to court us. She obviously doesn't agree and has instead chosen to court disheartened republicans upset with trump

 

hillary is still ahead in polls with third parties in them isnt she? i know its a tighter lead but shes still ahead right?

 

Nothing makes me more angry than people saying that my being critical of Clinton is going to lead to a Trump victory. So she should just get a totally free pass on all the awful things she has done / supports then?

 

She has way too much hubris for that.