General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 366

What isn't sensible about that? It summarized the BLM movement fairly accurately, told members to accommodate them in manageable capacities, and to not commit to concrete policy in the heat of the moment. Like it or not, to concede to demands absent party forethought would be political suicide-- BLM's favorability within the general public is not very good and has taken a substantial hit as of late.

I hate Democrats, but this seems really benign. Now, if there were instructional stuff regarding when Clinton locked BLM activists out of her rally, that'd be something.

Regarding whether they are our "best option," that's just not a topic of interest to me. As far as directing votes in crucial contests for which there isn't a third party alternative? Sure. But organizing independent of the party is decidedly, and in my mind indisputably, a better and more effective option than letting causes get whittled into nothing through the party machine.

Completely agree. The Democrats' approach on Trump, and indulging the myth that he's this strange, radical phenomenon, serves to give a complete pass to the racist pieces of shit who have progressively taken over the party's message. And not just on the topic of racism: all of Trump's radical and brain dead views echo those of previous candidates and current party leaders.

It's really agitating and actually gross that Clinton and the Dems are clearly softening what should be a vicious indictment of rightist racists so that they can hope to flip some of them.

 

I think part of the issue for Dems and Clinton is that they in turn would have to address some of their own racist agenda / past if they publicly litigated the GOP's racism. It's easier to live with the myth that both sides are trying really, really hard to do something.

 

The bothsides journalism would make it seem like it's the exact same anyway. Look at how Hillarys speech was covered: Trump and Clinton spar over racism. Clinton points out exact examples, press doesn't cover fairly, Trump says "she called all republicans racist" an then even the less racist republicans turn, and no one gets any votes.

The issue with calling it out as a politician is that it doesn't work if the public itself is racist. It's to the point where republicans call it a cliche that democrats call out racist shit.

 

I understand how the party work. I understand why it is sensible in terms of party politics. What it demonstrates to me is why party politics is about maneuvering, not principle. Other political organizations do not follow this way of interacting with movements because they actually support what they're proposing.

 

It's not just "how the party works". It's literally just stupid to tell every activist group you meet that you promise to pass their policies. Even if they wanted to pass those policies, that creates impossible expectations and promises that are destined to be broken. See: Republicans telling everyone they were going to repeal ObamaCare.

 

David my boy, while you're right technically speaking, it also happens to be true that the Democratic party at a national level has no intention of ever creating real lasting solutions to the problems facing the black community nor do they intend to do anything to bridge race relations in this country. They are the establishment and they are dead. They have been feeding of the divisiveness of their own creation for too long. (The Republicans played their role as well. It was a team effort).

The Democrats have never cared about blacks. They have never done anything to help them. There are certainly members of the party at lower levels that probably chose the party thinking it was "the choice", and there are surely many good people who call themselves Democrats, who legitimately care. Their empathy has earned them the title of "useful idiot" to Hillary Clinton and friends.

It's Trump time boys. I know many on this board oppose him. There are many reasons for that, some of which I can sympathize with. But I bet at least half of you come around and vote for him by the time his reelection rolls around. It will actually be really interesting to see what the Democratic party has become in 4 years and what kind of candidate they put up.

 

This is the funniest thing I've ever seen.

 

Humor helps get the point across

 

Can't touch this
Stop Trump time

 

Not a fan of those latest Wisconsin numbers.

 

I'm sorry, but how did "don't offer support" become "don't promise to pass?"

 

Who is talking about every activist group? We are talking about a specific one, whose goals were a big feature at the convention, are we not? Why would you not promise to fight for policies of a group you regularly invoke? Why not support their policy proposals? The similarity I see between republicans and democrats in this regard is, like repealing Obamacare, this is an issue that is used to stir up the base, but isn't treated with any degree of seriousness, other than maybe lipservice or reforms that say police officers should shoot black people in the leg, as opposed to the head or something like that.

 

Reading the press coverage of this this morning ... they want the horse race now ... this election is going to tighten and I'm going to hate October.

 

I hate everything.

 

It says nothing about fighting for certain things, it says don't offer support for "concrete policy positions", aka don't tell them you're going to pass the exact policy they're proposing, or promise that them 100% agreement with a policy.

 

I guess your definition of policy positions differ. To me, it means "I support such and such policy", not "I will, for a certainty, pass such and such policy". What is the difference between saying they'll get rid of the Hyde Amendment, for example, which has equal resistance in the senate, and espousing support for concrete policies offered by black lives matter? My question remains, why would you not support the policies of movement for which you claim an affinity?

 

Great article:

"Politics is where people can gain the ability to actively reshape the world, rather than just describe it. It’s as false as the Athenian theater, and this is no bad thing. Of course these aspects of politics can give rise to monsters like Donald Trump; dreams always raise the possibility of a nightmare. But when we’re confronted with political evil, our response should be to fight it with something good, not to grumble that it’s getting its statistics wrong.

It’s not that facts aren’t good for anything, but a politics consisting of facts and nothing else isn’t politics, but management. This is what our politics are actually turning into: rule by experts and fatalism.....When truth is all that matters, there’s no room for any vision of a better life. All you end up with is a system in which the rulers are the ones with the most information, who know the ins and outs of the machine, and are sporadically capable of keeping it running. And if it’s a machine for grinding up human bodies into a profitable paste, then that’s just the reality of things."

The Biggest Political Lie of 2016