General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 365

I meant to say "delusional". I blame Apple, in any case.

 

I don't expect any actual support from democrats because I think the objectives of the movement for black lives is incommensurable with the objectives of democrats.

 

I really don't want to start a racial debate because honestly, it would lead to nothing but argumentative posts and flood the pages.

While I agree that there needs to be massive reform (not in all parts of the country) in both law enforcement and political office, that was one of the most broad stroked responses to the "what does BLM want" question.

With the exception of police brutality and imprisonment based on profiling, the other "wants" of the BLM movement you listed are somewhat erroneous, at least to a certain extent.

Unequal treatment by medical professionals - meaning what exactly? If someone of color has the same injury as a white person, you're saying that the person of color will receive a lesser treatment? That's putting it into the simplest of terms, and assuming that's what you meant by the statement.

Access to good education - Besides the NAACP, which is has a tax exempt status, and the UNCF, what else can be done? Keep in mind that one's GPA needs to meet the requirements to enter a university, so if someone is a screw up in high school (where we all sat in the same classes), that's their own fault.

State sponsored murder - is that a slick way of saying "wrongful death?" If so, I agree that too many cops, regardless of their race, are itching to pull the trigger when someone doesn't listen when they bark orders. If this isn't what you mean, elaborate.

Please don't take anything I just said as malicious, because that isn't the intent.

EDIT: I feel like I have to say this, but I grew up and currently live in an area with a really high crime rate. I didn't go to college, never had any sort of government aid, but I am white.

 

You got all that from a generic memo directing politicians and their staff to meet with and listen to them? There's literally nothing inflammatory about that memo. The most inflammatory thing to me is that people in important places (aka high level staffers)don't already know all of that about BLM.


I would assume it's put in quotes because it's alluding to what the group's beliefs are. I do that all the time when referring to what someone else is saying or what their beliefs are, even if I agree with them.

 

There is research that points out that, yes, black individuals do not receive the same treatment as white individuals from doctors. I forget the specifics but I remember some it having to do with black patients not having their concerns listened to as much, not getting the same quality meds, etc.

Better education isn't just limited to the higher education level--public schools in America are not all equal. Since school funding is based largely on local taxes, schools in poorer neighborhoods tend to be underfunded. Their class sizes are bigger, their materials are older and not as abundant, and the teachers tend to be newer teachers since most teachers will move on to a better paying district/easier teaching job after they get a few years experience. Newer teachers tend to be less effective than veteran teachers. The truth is that no, we didn't really "all sit in the same class"...though I will concede on some level that, once you get to high school, for the most part you get out of it what you put into it. The problem for poor black people in urban areas is often times it was the failure of elementary and middle school opportunities that did not prepare them to properly "put into" high school. Aka it's hard to learn high school level subjects when you're only on a 3rd grade reading level.

 

I have three children, all in public school where the rating is 2/10 (greatschools.org). ALL races that live in the area where this school is designated attend, and are offered the same education, or lack thereof depending on how you look at it.

You're right, this school is full of younger teachers who don't have the experience or the patience to work with "troubled" kids. Why are they troubled? Probably because of their environment. What's wrong with their environment? It's at or just below poverty level due to numerous reasons stemmed both from the people residing there and the local government who doesn't care.

Public schools in any city of any state can be complete dogshit, regardless of the ethnicity of the students attending. But you have to put some responsibility on the parents of the school system isn't doing it's job. You'll say that school is supposed to teach, but what if they aren't teaching? You're just going to let your kid go through school as an idiot and blame it on the system? Why not take initiative yourself and help the kid out?

Unless you're talking about a school where the ethnicity is 100% one race, the argument isn't really that valid.

 

saying "we all sat in the same classes" is blatantly false when you have local education being funded by property taxes (i.e. impoverished areas have less funding, creating a cycle of poverty) and there are demonstrated, confirmed biases that teachers have towards different students.

 

If you're in a high school with diversity, how am I wrong with what I said? The teacher might not "like" certain students, but that doesn't correlate with the GPA of the student.

 

it isnt about "liking" them as an individual, it's about implicit and explicit attitudes that affect expectations and a students performance. you see it in the way girls are treated (re: ignored) in math and science clases, for instance. these are the kinds of things that have been confirmed over and over again.

 

Maybe so. I'm just basing this off of my own high school experiences, which had a very low graduation rate when looking at entering freshmen compared to seniors.

The city where my high school was located was primarily hispanic/african american; teaching staff was mostly white and some of the smartest people there were of the majority...so I guess each case is different.

 

unfortunately your anecdotal evidence isn't particularly useful when we are talking about macrotrends and institutions.

 

Yes, some poor white kids get caught up going to shitty schools too, even in inner cities (though for white people it tends to be poor rural schools that fuck them). And they, compared to their more affluent white counterparts, will have less opportunities presented to them due to that. That is a problem.

But at the same time, they will have an easier time getting out of that situation just because of systemic racism (not to mention other possible reasons). But just looking at systemic racism alone shows how much harder it is for a POC to get out of that situation. The view people have of young black boys as more "adult" and "scary", the assumed "guilt" black kids often face vs. white kids, the way black names with the same resume as white names get half as many call backs, etc.

Poverty is, relative to population size, heavily burdened by people of color, which is why lack of educational opportunities is often one of the focuses on how to help out POC.

 

My mother was a 4th grade teacher for 30 years, at one of the lowest rated schools, in a high crime poor neighborhood. Boise is high on the list for refugees to live, and we get tons from Bosnia (years ago) Somalia, and many others. The teacher has EVERYTHING to do with a childs success, and due to her being requested for a lot of the troubled kids, that acted out in class, had no parental guidance, or whatever the case was, she would end up with a lot of difficult classes. She never complained, treated each kid as well as the next, concentrated on the different learning styles, and took advantage of the programs the school offered for subject difficulties etc. She is now retired and to this day runs into former students that have graduated high school, college, or have become teachers themselves and will tell her she directly influenced the way their life took a positive turn from there. We can have the same impact anywhere in the country with the teachers, but it takes a lot more than teaching credentials to employ the right people.

 

also, if you grow up poor or with a single parent, chances are much higher you'll have to work through high school and if that's the case you're naturally going to put less effort into school and more into working to survive

 

The public school system is a joke. If I could afford to put my kids through private school, I would.

Most public schools don't attract good teachers, that's one of the main issues. If you're in a nice area with a household income relative to the state household income, the school will have a better chance to attract the more experienced teachers.

If you're in an impoverished area, obviously the schools will be shit because they can't pay the teachers...or they teachers don't want to deal with the "bad" kids.

 

Got you, misunderstood your post

 

lol. Okay, David. It is symptomatic of how democrats approach progressive movements: patronize and co-opt, but make no promises in terms of policy, because that would make us accountable/we don't actually support the policies they propose.

As for the scare quotes, please. Your assumptions are far too generous.

 

Agreed on some parts. I wouldn't say the public school system is a "joke", but rather the way we fund it is.

And some teachers will stay in those schools because it is their passion to work with a tougher student population. But that's becoming more and more rare these days because of all the shit being thrown at teachers from all sides.

 

Lol. Okay, Dominick. It's literally just a memo saying if you encounter activists, reach out and meet with them. Of course you don't fucking make policy promises to every group you meet with. WTF?

Please. Your assumptions are far too nefarious. Yes, I'm sure the person who wrote the memo does not think "anti-black racism" is a problem and/or doesn't exist. Not all quotes are scare quotes. Stop fishing for shit.

 

Memes do come true: Here’s Brent Spiner as Trump’s doctor

 

There is a reason for dwindling state testing scores in the southern california public school system. You can blame the way the school is funded (which would relate to the teacher's pay), but the teachers and their abilities are to blame as well. Plus, the parents SHOULD pick up the slack if the teacher is failing. It's the school's job to teach, but if they aren't teaching, you have to handle shit on your own.

I know it shouldn't be this way, but it is, so we have to deal with it.

 

If you're using a group as a means of electoral leverage, as well as invoking the name of their struggles, then I would imagine one would make promises in terms of what they're calling for. I understand that this isn't how one "plays the game", but, again, it is demonstrative of how the game is intended to not actually address what these groups are advocating. Whatever spin you want to put on it is fine, but the intention and the way they understand these groups is apparent and feeds the rightful cynicism groups have towards the party because of their methods of co-opting real movements.

I do believe that. I do believe that democrats, and Hillary in particular, are entirely uninterested in effecting any of the reforms advocated by the movement for black lives. I don't need to imply any nefarious motives, I just need to look at their track record to know they care nothing for black lives.

 

Something I've really grown to resent about Hillary / DLC Democrats since her speech last week is that they are talking about how Republicans in the past have been soOoOo much better on race than Trump--McCain wasn't racist, GWB wasn't racist, Romney wasn't racist. Trump cropped up in a vacuum!

I not only disagree with this from a factual perspective (the policies of those players were racist; the legacy of the GOP [esp. since the Southern Strategy] is deeply racist and now would be a perfect opportunity to point that shit out), I also think it is a strategic misstep on the part of Clinton towards building a left-leaning Congress.

Of course, that's giving her and Democrats more credit than they deserve vis a vis that actually being their goal.