Accountability in Music • Page 516

Re: screencapped tweet- I didn’t realize she was on the same label as MM. Right on for her to call them out.

 

Has the band ever addressed this?

:Edit: This video sucks and has some pretty tasteless jokes that were the norm in the early to mid 00s, but it's the only one I've seen with the clips. If someone else finds them, I'll happily pull this down

 

No they just quietly took it down from their website, basically Nate convinced them somehow to play I don't think the rest of the band believed it but still wild especially because he was in SDRE

 

Morgan Wallen's Airplay Collapses After Racial Slur, But His Sales Are Way Up

 

america

 

Annnd that’s why his label “suspended” him instead of dropping him. That’s not even a slap on the wrist.

 

Foo Fighters, HIV Deniers

Mendel's deleted response: HIV Dissidence Debate

Grohl at a 2013 Elton John Aids Foundation event

 

This is why accountability is so difficult, there really is no bad press. For "separate the art from the artist" who don't care what anyone does, news of abuse or yelling racial slurs is basically an ad.

 

Not only that, but there are also the defiant fans who are purposely driving up his numbers to combat "cancel culture" or whatever other moronic shit they come up with to convince themselves they aren't sympathizing with a racist.

 

.

 

he had to know

 

He definitely knew. He’s one of the ones that watched that short film he did that apparently he made him not release because he would’ve went to court then for it for the shit he did

 

Isn’t he the guy who said he pays his daughter’s doctor to check that she is still a virgin?

 

yup

 

This article by Marissa Moss is a really good encapsulation of the Morgan Wallen situation and the deeper systemic issues that run deep within the country music establishment. Highly recommended.

Nashville has punished Morgan Wallen. But country music's reckoning with racism awaits

 

I've gone back and forth on commenting here in this thread and have limited my posts site wide for at least the past year because I have mixed feelings on some of the aspects of what goes on in this thread and have felt "dogpiled" on in the past as this user does here.


I may be wordy because I want to make sure anyone who reads this knows exactly where I am coming from here due to my prior experiences being ganged up on for having a minor dissenting opinion. So here are my core and genuine beliefs:

1. We need to believe women and support them when they report any sort of harassment or misconduct.

2. There needs to be accountability in music, real accountability. Loss of label, removed from streaming services, jail time if necessary depending upon the extent of crimes committed. Etc... We need accountability in all things really. All people in positions of power including the police need to have more accountability when they abuse their power.

3. Laws need to be changed to better protect women (and men really) from stalking and harrassment in general but going even more specific, this is especially true in online forums. In this generation, access to musicians and celebrities, as well as access to and the growth of "youtube, twitch, tiktok" and other social media platforms where streamers on these platforms build up massive followings is in desperate need of protections, safety measures and awareness from police enforcement and the like.


That said, some backstory and then onto some of my dissent. I'd have to go back to my prior posts to review it but there was a band I was unfamiliar with. I had seen the band name hyped up all over chorus.fm by those affiliated with chorus and users alike. Eventually, I made my way into the chat about this band after finally caving and giving the album a listen. I typed up my honest take which was simply that the album wasn't for me, I didn't find it to be anything special or original, I didn't think the music itself was anything exceptional or that the singer had a great voice. I said I didn't understand the hype and asked genuinely what I was missing that had everyone else so in love with the band. Apparently this band, it was female fronted but maybe all women (my memory isn't the best and this is a year or two out now) was big on social justice (which is cool) and had a lot going on in their lyrics, had LBGTQ ties and were sort of pioneers in breaking boundaries and glass ceilings and maybe faced some resistance the band had to overcome so a lot of people were inspired by them, relating to them and in awe of their talent and release in a way that didn't connect with me.

Now, I made this post just as a random dude commenting on music because I love music and thought this was a safe place with other music lovers to talk music whether I thought it was good or not, as long as I wasn't trying to shame people or attack people because they liked a band. My intent wasn't to troll or enter a conversation to say "this band is lame and anyone who likes them is stupid." My intention was just to provide my own small thoughts and general first listen review without knowing much about the band and then to ask what it was that made the band so special to others...

What I was met with was what felt to me at least as an onslaught of attacks from all directions and the more I tried to defend myself and explain that I meant no harm, the deeper the hole seemed to be dug against me. How dare I, a cis male, review a band of women and not praise it?? Insinuations were made about my intentions. I was told I was basically wrong for speaking. My voice was supposed to be silenced unless it was fully positive when it comes to this band. I was spoken down to by a woke police who considered themselves more progressive and better than me and it honestly felt really shitty. It felt extra crappy because it for one, sucks to be misunderstood and two, I also pride myself on being super progressive, extremely left politically and wanting equality for all regardless of age, sex, race, religion, gender etc. and yet I was being made to feel like an out of touch intolerant.


I know (or at least I feel confident based on past experiences) that I am going to get attacked for this but some items of dissent just to play devils advocate that I want to make people aware of even if you will inevitably disagree:

1. Sometimes this forum does seem to have "woke police" vibes to it. I feel like way too often the most liked post of the week, as it was this week which led me back here for the first time in forever, is someone smacking down someone else (whether rightfully or not) for stating an opinion that doesn't align perfectly to what most of us agree with and it seems to always be in the "Accountability in Music" discussion thread. The pattern goes - someone says something that doesn't align. One or two people respond to correct them and point out in some way or another that their opinion is something synonymous to toxic (in this case it kind of was toxic), the response gets a TON of likes, the person apologizes for said post, but then the woke police shows up to tell them their apology isn't good enough and they get dissected and piled on and it isn't just the comments that add to the pile, its the likes. The toxic poster gets zero and everyone else piles on the likes and comments in support against this poster. I see it all the time. This is why I've stayed away even though I'm almost always in agreement with the "woke" side of the argument.

2. I see people putting "cancel culture" in quotes like it doesn't exist but I think it is important not to take a stance that the more left leaning woke side (and I am not saying woke as an insult or negative connotation I honestly just can't think of a different word right now) never goes out of their way to cancel and shame people who's opinions don't perfectly align with theirs. I've seen popular streamers attacked from the left and right as part of cancel culture for literally nothing. The online hoards of cancel trolls first trash the person directly, then they go to their employers and sponsors, then they go after their family and friends, then they go after the customers of the sponsors, sometimes for nothing, sometimes for a dumb joke that doesn't have a slur or anything negative towards any group (its just something weird), or sometimes for a political opinion or who they voted for. There were people trying to cancel a girl with Tourrettes who streams called "Sweet Anita" at one point because she ticked out "Kill the Jews" or something like that even though she immediately apologized, shut down her stream in embarrassment when it happened etc. There are plenty of examples if you look for them, where the hoards of angry torch baring internet trolls rush to cancel someone for literally nothing at all. I remember seeing this when certain people wore braids for example.

3. Believing Women - I think it is important to believe women and support women when they come out with allegations but I don't think it doesn't mean we don't still investigate. Sometimes there's no evidence either way and it sucks. Sometimes no other women come out and its just 1 against 1 and we really don't know in the end. I struggle with this because personally I want to believe the woman, support her, get her any help she needs, make sure whomever the alleged abuser is no longer has the ability to harm her or anyone else and all that...but...not all women are telling the truth unfortunately. It sucks to say. It really does but it happens. Most of the time and nearly all the time, the women coming forward are telling the truth but there are situations out there like with Amber Heard. I don't like to rush to doing irreparable damage to a persons career and livelihood before taking a moment to review the facts, while supporting the women and getting them the help they need. A lot of people have a problem with this and would want to cancel me for it but to me I wonder how you can live in America and believe in rights, equalities and freedoms and then suddenly want to throw the right to due process out the window when it suits you? Now, last thing I'll say on this is 99% of the time, women are telling the truth. I believe that.



I'll leave my dissent at those 3 points because mostly I think this thread is extremely useful most of the time and I don't mean to belittle anyone that posts within it and I am not even speaking directly to anyone who commented on this particular occasion (I especially am not attacking in any way the first person to respond and point out they had a mental illness). I am more commenting on a pattern I've seen.

I hate to criticize this site at all because I pay for a membership here and I look at the site nearly every day and have mostly positive experiences but I criticize it because I love it and I want to make it better. I could even criticize the founder, Mr. Tate because I feel like he sometimes (he said this once in a response) doesn't listen to certain bands because they might have a crappy person who runs their record label or a personal history with someone at that label. I then went to look at this label and they have a ton of talented bands on it and I feel potentially denying them exposure on his site based on which label they are signed to is a disservice to the band and the community as a whole and I feel like I can say that and still be a fan of Jason Tate and of this site and I can still have a lot of love for both.

Sometimes the MAGA crowd and the right in general tends to claim the left "hates America" whenever the left points out things like the rest of the world having Universal Healthcare but I have always responded to these claims that "I hate America" with, I criticize America because I love America, and that's why I want to make it better.


So the super quick point to the end of this long novel - I think we need to all respect one another a little bit more and try and see the perspectives of others a little bit more instead of just thinking there is only one right answer as to how to feel or think whether it be about music or more serious topics like those discussed in this thread. It's okay to disagree with people. We need to also be aware of how the pile can feel like bullying even if the words being used aren't disparaging. Online bullying as a whole needs to be taken more seriously worldwide and one last thing that is often overlooked - I think minor infractions to the code, if a person really is remorseful and shows a clear attempt to change and be better, should come with a path towards redemption and forgiveness. We seem to demand perfection from people now when in reality, each of us has done or said things we regret from time to time.

 

man, can we not even rely on steve aoki anymore?

 

ah yes using someone who was on a mission to fit every foot they could find in their mouth while being legitimately offensive in the process as an excuse to make it all about you and your grievance diatribe. exactly what the thread needed; thank you

*fast forwards*