General Politics Discussion VIII [ARCHIVED] • Page 945

What temperature do you keep your roommate?

 

Should the French government ban drawings of a specific religious figure? Or any drawings that offend? It's an exercise of free speech. IMO, if you're offended enough by a drawing to cause violence, the fault is with you, not the cartoonist.

 

Not so much that they trigger people but that the triggering leads to real violence which is unacceptable

Edit: I just want to add that this is an extremism issue and as such is complex, no easy solution obviously. No amount of repudiation by non-extremists will eliminate the problem so putting it on muslim communities to fix it is not any kind of answer. It's very much a circle at this point

 

73.2 F

 

Drawing Muhammad doesn’t trigger “so many people”, it triggers some extremists and then the reaction to those extremists results in broad islamophobia. None of it is good. There’s no defending the extremists who respond to such a silly thing with bloodshed, but I also don’t understand the need to keep doing something offensive just because you can when it’s resulting in more and more animosity to Muslims as a whole.

 

You don’t have to legally ban something, but I think it’s fair to criticize the drawings and that can be done without justifying extreme responses to the drawings.

 

Isn’t the increased animosity the point? Like they’re trying to prove the “religious immorality” of the reaction of extremists to create that feedback loop?

It’s kind of like troll culture, where in order for you to be morally ok with generating the reaction you absolve yourself of the hypocrisy of stoking the fires by saying the outcome “proves” that they’re worse. It’s “just” a joke, or it’s “just” a comic

 

@Victor Eremita That's a good point... what I'm unclear about is what the best response from the French government should be? I mean, an old lady was beheaded in a church. If that happened in the U.S. and the government response was just "plz stop drawing offensive pictures," I'd be pissed.
Media and people should report on and emphasize the response of the majority of Muslims to events like these. Stuff like this: Horrified by deadly attacks, French Muslims protect church

 

I should clarify that it's triggering people in the Muslim world to a varying degree; obviously it triggers the extremists, but it's also triggering a lot of non-extremists in their world as well. There's been a big call for a boycott of French products throughout the Middle East, and I've had Muslim friend post about it as well

 

People who draw depictions of the Prophet just seem like edgelords.

 

If islamophobia is the point then I hope we agree those intentions are wrong

 

I'm asking why people want to draw it so bad.

 

100% agree

 

I personally wish the iconoclasts during early-ish Christianity. We would not have white Jesus if they won.

 

Islamophobia is not the point but is very clear collateral damage of protesting against violent extremists. You can't offend extremists only.

 

They should prosecute and condemn those responsible without victim blaming. I’m not saying in the wake of something like that the government should harp on offensive pictures. But I think your second point is important, it’s important to give Muslims who condemn the attacks a voice and as a government not to react broadly. Muslims also have the right to continue be offended by the drawings, and it’s important to not paint Muslims as a whole with the extremists. I worry that the public and government response is going to harm a lot of innocent people.

 

I'm sure for a lot of people, it's just a gut response to violence. Like, "You're killing people over images? Fuck you."

For others, it's a principled exercise of free speech (freedom of religion doesn't mean others have to adhere to your blasphemy beliefs).

For others, they're Islamaphobic edge lords and want to offend.

Overall it's a shitty situation. I hope there's no more violence over cartoon drawings and I also hope these events and reactions to it don't lead to more Islamaphobia (which has all sorts of 2nd and 3rd order bad effects itself).

 

From what little I understand, France's Muslim population comes from former colonies, like Algeria which were severely brutalized and exploited. When the migrants of those countries came to France they were, of course, met with racism and lived in slums or slum-like conditions.

It may just be the old lefty in me talking, but to fight radicalism just like crime anywhere, France would need to improve the material conditions of all its population across the board. But of course Macron is a neoliberal and seems to be slowly but surely sliding towards La Pen.

 

Healthy young child goes to doctor, gets pumped with massive shot of many trumps, doesn't feel good and changes - AUTISM. Many such cases!

 

"have you gotten your fresh trump injection yet?"

 

I cannot WAIT to have trump inside me