Machine Gun Kelly - Tickets To My Downfall (September 25, 2020) Album • Page 21

I’m fine with that and I totally agree.

 

Wait, are you referring to mine?! Or was there actually one?

 

Yeah the latest news post has some shit about the band in it all in the name of #Nostalgia

 

It’s strange how the community is not allowed to talk about/discuss Brand New (which I support, do not get me wrong), but they are allowed to be posted in the article portion of the website.

 

That’s... not what the joke means?

 

actually, this is helpful because we can now affirmatively refer to him as a pedophile, because while he may not have actually engaged in sexual acts, if the mere desire or attraction to a minor counts, he is surely guilty tenfold, so the argument of 'is he really a pedophile' is now put to bed. the answer is yes. thank you wikipedia.

 

I have nothing nice to say about MGK - he’s clearly a creep and a pedophile. And if I come across as tone policing here, I am sorry, that isn’t my intention. Here’s the thing: Learning about accountability is hard, it’s emotional, and it can take years to unlearn placing people on pedestals. Burning your idols doesn’t come naturally, nor is it taught in your usual institutions. Like any discussion or debate, people deserve chances to learn from others.

If I came into this thread - especially if I were eight years younger, a naive but idealistic teenage girl - and asked some questions and was yelled at for being a pedo defender, when that’s the very last thing I could ever be; I’d be terrified and never come back here. I’ve been hit, screamed at and emotionally abused for daring to question. I don’t need that experience ever again just for genuinely asking questions in good faith, no one does. Please think about how straight up bullying people can affect survivors or vulnerable people who have never engaged in these discussions before. Be angry, anger is powerful and important, but don’t lose sight of how you channel it.

That is not the way to get people engaged in discussions about accountability, politics, colonialism; or anything remotely serious, really. That kind of harassment drives people to 4chan and reddit and ridiculous conspiracy theories, because they believe they’ve been attacked and no one is listening to them. I’ve seen it and wish I could’ve stopped it. I’m not suggesting that if people come into accountability discussions and derail them with ranking albums that you shouldn’t tell them to fuck off. That’s being deliberately facetious. But, people inevitably have questions when allegations surface. They feel confused and overwhelmed. People deserve chances to work through that.

This place isn’t perfect, no website with a community is. But if you don’t allow people to grow, they’re just going to regress. I’m not a mod and didn’t intend on posting anything here. I’m really anxious about waking up in the morning (it’s very late here already) to a barrage of abuse, so please take it easy and PM me if you have a problem with anything I’ve said or you have any suggestions for going forward. I’m always open to listen.

I’m going to brainstorm ideas to tackle accountability over the weekend, as this cycle is toxic but I believe it can change.

 

This is a really important post and puts my feelings in a much more eloquent way, so thank you for this.

 

I think it’s worth noting who is getting dunked on/yelled at/told to fuck off. From what I can see it’s mainly:
1) Staff enabling shit and refusing to hold a conversation
2) Members coming in only to troll, rank MGK songs, try to discuss the music and ignore the discussion, etc.

 

Or define pedophilia

 

We've interacted positively in the past, through posts and even PMs, so I hope that you take what I say in good faith: there are a number of posters on this site who are unwilling to post or speak out about feeling bullied or attacked when situations like this arise because of prior incidences of feeling targeted or bullied or harassed. It isn't just the staff and it isn't just the trolls. They confide in me, for whatever reason, and other posters on the site who they feel comfortable talking to.

I'm all for telling the dickheads who are being antagonistic or willfully obtuse to fuck off. I called out the person attempting to define pedophilia a few posts up. I'm also fine with calling out staff. Jason and I have had a pretty ugly relationship for the past decade, and I absolutely think there's room for growth. For one, I really don't know why problematic artists still get news posts on the site, I think that's a glaring error on the part of the admin/mod team.

It seems like a cop-out to reference PMs, I get that, but know that there are people who fit the exact profile that @Mary V is talking about who are very uncomfortable with some of those things.

I hate that I keep having to post shit like this because it's vague, but I don't know what else to do when people are contacting me thanking me or asking for advice, ya know?

 

Who has ever said no one is *allowed* to talk about the band? That’s just silly. People should talk about the band and the pain they’ve caused and how they’re dealing with it and how it’s impacted them. It’s a important part of healing.

 

Or they should be able to celebrate nostalgic memories of the band like nothing ever happened without reference to the awful things they’ve done. Is that part of healing too?

 

Yeah, the Brand New post is a really bad look

 

Seriously, I read that yesterday and of all the things that were nostalgic stories for AP you had to bring up that one? I would have thought someone would have thought twice before celebrating one of the scenes most prolific abusers.

 

Well, their thread on here is archived so that’s a big part of where I got the “no one is allowed to talk about the band” sentiment. Also, it seems like whenever they are brought up in a non-negative light people become angry/annoyed/hostile/etc. at them being brought up (which I understand, just saying to prove my point). There’s definitely a divide in who can talk about them on here without getting shit on. Personally, I think they should be completely banned, it’s not fair for those whom Jesse abused to (potentially) see the band being posted in a nostalgia post and not fair for abusers to see an abusers art being praised in any way.

 

Cherry picking through all the important discussion to defend writing about Brand New, also not a great look

 

Also being super defensive towards me when I’m just stating an opinion that’s widely held isn’t exactly productive or welcoming as the owner of a site that is supposed to be a “safe space”.

 

Cherry picking? I responded to a post that was about me, and was untrue. How everyone can claim they want discussions in "good faith" while also doing things like *this* is wild.

 

I mean, I think a good jumping point is starting to enforce a procedure for any allegations that come out from the time it's implemented and go forward to see how it works. No sense in going back and trying to find the legacy bands threads and closing them or trying to review every single thread created in the music forum right off the bat. And maybe just do it for artists and acts that have a first degree allegation (a bandmember accused of abuse, harassment, or has tweets/words that are racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic) and not second or third degree like collaborations, tour managers, tour mates, crews, etc. Let's try it out, whatever it is, for anything going forward and then re-evaluate if it works or doesn't work and if there's a desire to go back to past threads and implement the procedure retroactively on those. Again, not asking for a comprehensive and complete procedure immediately that addresses every single possible issue. But, at least get something basic out there and try it and amend it as situations come up

 

They're talked about frequently. Not that long ago @nohandstoholdonto talked about how listening to the band has been helpful for them, I've written extensively about working through the issues and how they've been intertwined into my life for years and how to reconcile that with what happened, current events, and anger, frustration, etc.

If you talk to a therapist, they don't tell you to pretend the past didn't happen, to ignore it, to never explore it, to never talk about it, there's a lot of healing that can come from discussion. To pretend this is the same as "praising" the band is just not true.

 

That makes sense, although I still do err on the side of leaving the threads open for discussion and reflection on how to deal with the artist. If it gets out of control, like this, or becomes clear that the posters are just willfully being dickheads ignoring the allegations close it.

 

This sums up what I've been trying to suggest all long in a detailed way, thank you.