Machine Gun Kelly - Tickets To My Downfall (September 25, 2020) Album • Page 19

Imagine voluntarily listening to machine gun smelly tho

 

And I hope one day you realize that pretending to not read threads about accountability and instead choosing to jump into a conversation and start talking about music and ranking albums isn't a solution either!

 

No, I hope not. Something should be done (by the users/mods/admin...idk). It fucking sucks that this site has a reputation for having members who don't care about accountability or who gloss over accusations. It's horrible. And it's horrible across the entire scene (even if most posters on the site don't listen to that type of music anymore).

I just don't know the right answer. Blocking/banning users for being shitheads is an option, I guess, but they'll go somewhere else. Same with closing threads. Sticky posts at the top of the threads are not really helpful, especially because users are posting positive things in the midst of an important discussion like this.

In my experience, the only way that I have seen problematic/ignorant users change their attitudes about things is through discussion. Contentious discussion, sure, and me being a dick and all that, but it has worked. And that took time. Hell, there are some users on this site who I really, genuinely did not like for years who have come around and become really great people. Do I fault them for their posts 5-7+ years ago? No, especially if I see them making positive change.

It's tiring, it's exhausting and it takes a toll to constantly be fighting that battle with the same people over and over again. I give up on users all the time, haha. I get it when people don't want to keep it up and just want to throw their hands up and leave the site/just stop posting.

 

I would like to disagree. Being a dick does not help.

 

Yes. It’ll happen again with a new chorus flavor of the month artist that has allegations and we’ll be right back here again in just a few months. The blink thread also has little mini spurts of this when those assholes collab with some terrible person if you get tired of waiting since there’s literally nothing those guys can do that would stop like half this site from defending them or brushing off the conversation. The accountability thread is usually the best place to go for actual good discussion though tbh.

 

...but isn't that the point of people calling out Anthony?

 

So you’re saying you disagree with them?

 

At the risk of being made fun of, I work a 9 to 5 and am going to need a little time to cool off before returning to the suggestions that have been mentioned here.

 

in what way? I think that I can be a dick and still hold a conversation. I’m not necessarily nice to people I’m talking to

 

Ah, I see the conversation is still about the TONE people are using and not about the guy sexualizing minors in his tweets. Very cool. Normal site.

 

And that's fair! I'm not giving you shit or anything. You're not the only mod and I want to make it clear that when I'm wishing for a firmer stance to be taken, I understand you shouldn't be the only one carrying these complicated decisions on your shoulders. I'm grateful that you came in here and took some time to help us deal with all this.

 

in my opinion, a good solution would be to once allegations are made/verified against an artist/band/whatever, the thread is closed for any further discussion, and the final post in the thread is to be made by the mod explaining the closure, and directing any/all further discussions to one of the several accountability threads.

if your choice as a content/media consumer is to continue to support/listen to problematic artists, surely that is your right and decision to do and none of us can stop you, but, i think we should be able to stop you from further discussing them in positive light on this website. there should be a no tolerance policy towards abusers. shutting down the thread is not silencing the conversation, it's moving it to a place of better/more productive conversation.

perhaps in exercising this practice we can take the time to fine tune what exactly the topics of conversation in the accountability threads should really be for, as those discussions go in a constant circle as well. strengthening the websites accountability presence/ability while also simultaneously enacting a 'zero tolerance policy' against problematic artist threads, in my opinion, will solve a lot of these monotonous situations.

 

So again, I ask the question about the artists in the grey. Nothing, The Wonder Years, State Champs, any band on Pure Noise. What do we do about them?

 

You're right. This convo should be about MGK and him being a creep. Anyone defending him is wrong and this whole separate conversation should not be taking place in here.

Posts like the one above by brad are not helpful.

 

it's a very good question, and one i do not have an answer for just yet.

 

Eh, Brad’s part of the actual problem on this site so his attempts at projection onto me are kind of par for the course for a user like that. He’s kind of proving all of our points for us.

 

I'm also not asking that question to be a dick or to cause a stalemate. I don't see why a thread like this needs to be open. Dude stinks, he made horrible tweets and anyone ignoring that or not willing to engage in that convo is in the wrong.

I'm just saying, if we enact that rule across the board, there is going to be a lot of argument regarding the artists in that area. All Time Low formed their career on having underage girls throw bras at them on stage. That creeps me out as much as MGK's tweets. They have multiple active threads on this site, too.

What about legacy acts? I brought this up when we were doing the album lists, but a group like The Beatles who had an abuser in it. Or Led Zeppelin or Bowie etc. etc. They are abusers. Do we block all conversation about them as well?

 

it's a slippery slope, there's no denying that - and this surely is not something jason/the mods can flip a switch today and solve, it'll be a relatively long weeding out trial/error process but, i think it finally needs to at least start somewhere.

 

Just because it’s hard doesn’t mean it shouldn’t even be attempted. Like the status quo is very much not ok. Trying *something* as opposed to *nothing* would definitely be preferable.

 

So, lock this thread then haha. Start there.

 

Machine Gun Kelly is an idiot, and he tweets were vile. It's not surprising he's too cowardly to address them, opting instead to erase them and pretend it never happened. My concern about the direction this thread took is that immediately it was declared that he was a pedophile, which is not a classification to be taken lightly. He was lumped into the same category of the NFG guitarist, who was literally charged with being a pedophile. He was lumped into the same category of JL, who literally admitted to grooming a minor and other repulsive behavior. The MGK tweets were horrendous, yes, and I don't doubt that he's a creep, but we went from "here are some old MGK tweets calling minors hot" to "he was inviting young girls back stage and I'm sure it was to have sex with them" to accuse anyone who came in to talk about the album of "supporting a pedophile," which like, as tone deaf as those posters are (and some of them antagonistically, purposely so), COME ON! Unless he's still tweeting these things, or has accusations against him, that's not a way to have this conversation! Until we collectively decide where we draw the line, and what actions we want to see implemented, these threads are always going to end up like this.

I don't think MGK falls into that "gray" category, but I also don't know that until we have proof that he's an actual pedophile and not some dweeby-ass 19 year old I feel comfortable telling people they're supporting a pedophile. I do think the least we can do right now is sticky a link to an article about the tweets in question.

 

The alternative I guess is to just come out and say that this forum is a safe space for people to come out and not feel guilty about supporting people like MGK or Brand New or whoever else. Just come out and say that this site as a whole doesn’t care about providing a platform for people to support those kinds of artists, to get others into them, and to promote their work. A blanket “separate the art from the artist” policy. Because if that’s how things are going to be in practice then that’s how they should be officially. That way the people who have somehow stuck around throughout the past fews years know where they stand and know for a fact that the site is not behind them. And that the site is not a place to have tough conversations. It’s just about the music, man!

At least then everyone will have explicit confirmation as to where things stand. Because right now the site is purportedly a place for people to feel safe, but in practice that just isn’t the case when so many privileged people just casually admit they don’t care about real issues that are life and death for those who are not so privileged.

 

Nobody here wants to talk about fucking Brand New. And rightfully so. I can't even recall the last time I saw someone praising that band on this site. Obviously this site is far from perfect but it has come a long way.

 

I feel like a lot of people are going to like this post because they want to get around calling MGK out for the disgusting, vile shit he tweeted but I do agree with the sentiment. I wouldn't call him a pedophile or an abuser because... there's no allegations against him.

I also think that the Tweets are really gross and cross a line to the point where I'm not going to defend him/listen to his music/support him etc. I don't know how he wasn't blacklisted after the Hailie tweets tbh, and it sucks that he has a huge platform right now because he seems predatory.

 

Unfortunately, you're probably right, but I want to make it clear that's not what I'm doing nor was the intention of my post to give his defender's a self-righteous out - I haven't listened to the album since I saw the tweets, and my waxing interest in this dude disappeared completely.