Machine Gun Kelly - Tickets To My Downfall (September 25, 2020) Album • Page 17

I guess I can only speak for myself, but again, I can't know that as long as those of us with good intentions are making it impossible for those conversations to take place by entering a thread and immediately eviscerating people for something they've chosen to listen to. I just had a conversation in the Kanye thread within the past couple of months where many users were able to discuss accountability while having empathy for his mental illness and discussing the impact his music once had on them. It's not impossible, but we have to be willing to facilitate it.

 

I also, and this maybe is just my opinion, but I don't think I'm even remotely interested in discussing accountability with someone when it concerns pedophilia. It just feels like a conversation you should only be on one side of.

 

It should be subjective and if users argue about one or another, they should be able to give an answer.

 

People haven't reported on these exact tweets, correct, but other tweets have been covered before.

 

One thing I’ve taken away from this thread and others in the news section about mgk is that you should never trust anyone with “182” in their username...

 

As someone from Cleveland, I never liked MGK. Checked out this album out to see what the hype is about. I always thought his rapping was garbage. I’ll give him credit for making a big career out of it.

I don’t think anyone here expected him to be as big as he is now. You would always see him around the city. Indians, Cavs games, etc. Was in a Blink 182 mosh pit with him once. Anyway, this is better than his rap material. Good for him though, he has a way better career than I do.

If we’re talking Cleveland rap Cudi will always win. Ok bye :)

 

lmao

 

is it a new bit to pretend not to know what's going on in here

 

Lol didn’t read any of the thread. He’s always been a d bag. None of this is surprising.

 

“d bag”

 

Im not supporting MGK or condoning his past behavior, but this thread truly went off the rails. What a mess. I think I'm just going to be done with it.

 

It hasn’t gone off the rails. This is a vital conversation that needs to be had.

 

But it’s not vital to some people.
Where else could they possibly discuss problematic artists? If only the internet existed with thousands of music forums.

Why go elsewhere when you can cover your eyes and pretend that people don’t suck and then say “I’m here to talk about the music!!”

 

I don't find it productive for people to just make blanket statements such as "this thread went off the rails. What a mess." (especially if you say you don't support MGK or condone his past behavior). These conversations are important and helpful. The pop punk scene has been filled with shitty men for years and many people let their words and actions slide, but we are now in an era where those words and actions are not acceptable and can hold those individuals accountable.

 

How is what I said me being unapproachable? I’m happy to discuss accountability and issues related to that concept. I’m going to shut down attempts to redirect the discourse to being positive about the problematic artist. Everyone seems to agree that it isn’t helpful or productive to try and derail serious conversations about what MGK has said about minors with praise for his album, so how is what I said in that quote in any way controversial? This shouldn’t be a safe space for people to praise someone who has said what MGK said!

If you’re a fan of the pedo guy, keep it to yourself.

 

So, it feels like the big question here would be about when a thread should be closed/which artists should be confined to the “separate art from artist” thread, where the line is, etc. And since that’s going to be an ever-changing thing based the individual poster, I’m curious what is different to you about this method than just blocking the threads of artists you don’t want to see?

 

Because I don't have a bunch of time throughout the day to have the conversation and go back and forth. I never said they weren't important.

 

It would be nice to have a better system in place to handle threads where individuals or band members are problematic in any way, so that if the survivors of their abuse or actions (i.e. pedophilia) don’t come to this website and feel unwelcome or triggered by seeing threads on their abusers filled with positive posts. Even though they will see similar posts on websites like Reddit, it would be nice to do our part in helping combat that.

On the other hand, there are people who are trying to work things out re: being understanding of MGK’s past behavior while also trying to get through/past their love/admiration/appreciation for MGK or whomever it is, and threads like these can be a place to do that.

The people who are just ignoring the discussion going on are not included and those people suck.

 

This isn't in reference to what I quoted. This is in reference to never seeing you trying to have those conversations respectfully. You are literally always aggressive about accountability issues, and I understand being passionate about something that important, but by only "shutting down" conversation, you seem to have zero interest in de-escalating arguments or improving discourse on this site.

 

What if we make the thread into a t-shirt, which @Anthony_ wears. That way he can never see it and whenever anyone looks at him they can see it. Win-win-win.

 

Because why should this site play host to a million safe spaces for people to talk about how much they love the new album by someone like MGK or Jesse Lacey or whoever else? If it has to be tolerated on the site at all let’s at least keep all the trash in one place. Give them a single thread to function as their own private echo chamber to just agree with each other all the time and wallow in their utter lack of empathy. That’s what they all clearly want anyway when they tell me they “just want to talk about music”, isn’t it?

First of all that’s not true at all and you can read through both accountability threads to see that’s not that case. Second, if I go into an artist’s thread and call that artist out for being a pos, and people come back at me with things like “just block the thread” or “we just want to talk about the music” how else should anyone react? These are issues of life and death in many cases and for people to treat them so callously and so flippantly, I won’t apologize for reacting to that in kind.

hahahahahah so funnny!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

Also it’s very VERY telling that so many people are trying to make this about me right now instead of about what it’s actually about (the extremely non-controversial opinion that maybe it’s not great to provide a safe space for people to publicly praise a guy who has made public pedophilic statements in the past). Everyone sees you!

 

I'm just telling you what I and others have experienced. I've never seen you have a civil conversation with someone who disagrees with you w/r/t accountability. Maybe people react the way they do to you calling out a problematic artists because, again, you are completely unapproachable everytime you do it. There's no compassion or empathy for users that might not know about it, or might be wrestling with it, just immediate snark and bad faith.

We have a fundamental disagreement about what should and shouldn't be discussed here, because I've seen plenty of valid and important conversations between users coming to terms with what problematic art has meant to them in the past and how they choose to interact with it in the future. I believe spaces for that should exist, because they might be the only way we can continue to learn and grow together.

This is not about you and I'm not making it about you. I've been itt all day, listening, interacting, trying to build solutions with the users. But to pretend the widespread aggression isn't a huge part of why these fights happen the way they do, just because you have good intentions, is disingenuous at best. Being right about an artist being a POS doesn't give you license to talk down to people at every turn.

 

This conversation is not about me, nor should it be about me, so everyone needs to stop trying to change the subject and make it about me (or any other user for that matter). Not going to be tone-policed by anyone on here. We’re talking about a guy sexualizing minors ffs.

Like I said before, these are issues of life and death in many cases and for people to treat them so callously and so flippantly, I won’t apologize for reacting to that in kind.