Machine Gun Kelly - Tickets To My Downfall (September 25, 2020) Album • Page 16

That's my point, though. Plenty of people in here who want the MGK thread closed (and I don't blame them, what a creep) wouldn't feel comfortable doing the same for TWY/PN threads. We don't need to get into the semantics of why I feel the way I do about TWY/PN, my point is I think setting the precedent of closing a thread of a problematic artist (again, this one seems to have run its course, I agree with you) will open up a larger, messier problem. Where do we/the mods draw the line? Do we report a thread to the mods to make them aware? Does the mod make the final decision? Idk how many posters/mods would agree with me regarding my TWY/PN stance, so I'd be left unhappy and alienated.

I genuinely don't have the answer to those things.

 

People have constantly informed people and have had conversations that bring attention to the issues that need to be talked about. The problem is, a ton of people tend to not listen at all, ignore it, and don't engage in the conversation and instead take it as a personal slight that the artist they're going to bat for is problematic.

 

Closing the thread solves the problem here but it doesn’t solve the problem in general. Obviously you aren’t going to get everyone to stop listening to him but you won’t get literally anyone to change their viewpoint if the thread is closed here and they go elsewhere to discuss MGK and the album. Although some of these people will always be ignorant, so trying to change their viewpoint seems like a pointless task, so I get it.

 

A disclaimer at the top of each page pointing to the issue could be a good solution. That way no one can really ignore a pinned post at the start of the thread and you aren't completely closing off discussion. Sort of like what youtube does when it flags videos that have potential misinformation.

This seems to happen frequently enough to warrant such a thing. You could even have an indicator in the thread list so people could know to avoid threads/artists that have problems.

 

Why should he keep it to himself this thread is for the artist and if ppl like the music so be it! If you’re not a fan then you should just get out of the thread

 

There's been some solid discussion happening the past few pages, but to be clear: This is not it.

 

Putting a disclaimer on the first post in a thread would definitely be helpful for new threads. But on a thread that has a ton of pages, I tend to just jump to the latest page. But maybe most people don't do that. I dunno.

 

I meant at the top of each page of a thread, sort of like a sticky bulletin.

 

It wouldn’t help you but it may help others @bradsonemanband

 

Would you make this dumb of a post if there was a sticky post at the top of each thread?

 

Maybe retitle the thread "Machine Gun Kelly (that pedo guy) has a new album"

 

do you support pedophiles? it's a legitimate question, i'm not trying to bait you. where exactly do you draw that line?

 

I guess at the end of the day, I just fundamentally disagree with (and am not interested in) the idea of Jason or the mods gatekeeping what music users can or can't talk about on this site. And I mean that in a general sense. If an artist is a nazi, or a pedophile, or a racist, fuck 'em. But in situations that are more nuanced than that, we should, ideally, be able to have a conversation about accountability and art that doesn't result in aggression and personal attacks.

If I want to bring awareness to some allegations and some dork wants to post about loving the album right after, I would either A) go the @OhTheWater route and quote them and at least try and have a conversation with them about why it's important to recognize those allegations, or B) ignore the post/block the user because fuck 'em. But going into every single thread about a problematic artist guns blazing and acting like anyone who still consumes their art is a monster is detrimental to the cause. If that's tone policing, then so be it. The message is valid, but you can't expect to change any minds if you're completely unapproachable at all times.

edit: once again, this was written before a bunch of other posts were made, including that really dumb one.

 

Well yeah, obviously something is better than nothing. I was just putting what I do out there to help maybe find a way to do something that is more universally helpful, like the sticky post idea that Lightwithoutheat just mentioned.

 

I also desperately need to get some work done during my 9-5, so if I bow out of this thread for a bit, I will be back later to listen and discuss more.

 

I often wonder why news about problematic artists get posted on the site's front page though. I feel like simply not posting the news story there is an easy adjustment to make. Something like this would be helpful I think, at least to those who frequent the news page: "This band put out a new album today, but they have a member that's had allegations surfaced. Here are some helpful articles that explain them in detail."

 

it just always boggles my mind how the people who get the worst rap in these threads are the people who are calling out the shitty problematic musicians, and the equally problematic posts supporting them. it's always like "hey if YOU don't like them YOU don't have to come in here!!!!!" why are YOU in here, posting about how much an album is pumping you up, knowing fully it was made by a pedophile? what does that say about YOU?

this happens time and time and time again and it really is always some of the same users in all the threads. if you want to bury your head in the sand and block out all the bad stuff people do just so you can find a few minutes to enjoy some guys album, this website really may just not be the place for you.

 

I’m not going anywhere pal, get used to it

 

My input for the mods...
Think about what artists should or shouldn’t be talked about on the site. I get that it’s mainly a music site and people want to talk about the actual music...but not posting about certain people is more important.

 

To be clear, if you feel personally attacked by me or anyone else coming into a thread and calling out someone like MGK for what they’ve done, I don’t know what to tell you. You need to do some growing up ASAP and realize that these people are not you, they don’t care about you, and they don’t care whether or not you defend them on a website like this. Separate your personal identity from the musicians you enjoy, please, ffs. I’m not here to baby you by treating these awful people with kid gloves.

But I for one am not going to stop doing it so whoever has a problem with that, please know that I am not sorry in the slightest about it. Please know that.

And if anyone is going to bat for someone like MGK in public, on here, I’m not going to just let that go because real people can and have been hurt/driven off this site because of how welcoming it is to the kind of behavior we should be working to drive out of this community. I value the feelings of those people far more than the feelings of anyone who is offended that I call out MGK or Brand New or Pinegrove or Blink-182 or Kanye West or whoever else. You’ll get over me saying your fav is problematic, I promise! They may not get over the trauma of thinking a space that should be safe for everyone is tolerant of that kind of shit.

 

Also if anyone feels uncomfortable expressing public support of someone like MGK or Brand New or whoever as a result of my posts or anyone else’s, that’s kind of the point isn’t it? Keep it to yourself!

 

Thanks for the input, but this is the broadest suggestion possible and offers nothing in the way of how we should determine what artists should or shouldn't be talked about on the website without receiving hundreds of posts about why artist x is banned but artist y isn't.

 

I think it would be nice if when posting news about problematic artists, some disclaimer is added with links to where people can see the problematic posts/allegations/etc. of an artist.

For example, Dylan from Tiny Moving Parts was accused of sexual assault, news outlets posted about it, then posted about his apology, but haven't posted anything about it since. The only way to know about any current developments since then (that the survivor does not feel comfortable with Dylan continuing to tour/put out music) is from tweets they made on Twitter, which aren't super easy to find.) In the case of MGK, no news outlets have reported on his tweets, the only way to know about them is seeing the screenshots/this thread.

If artists like MGK are still to be posted about on here in the news section, than a disclaimer with links to the relevant screenshots/allegations/etc. should be put on every post so people are completely aware (and can't pull the "I didn't know about the allegations/tweets etc." card) and the situation does not just get blown over like it did with Tiny Moving Parts.

 

If you care about accountability, don't you want others to as well? What are you gaining by being completely unapproachable at every turn? How can you expect discourse on this site to improve whatsoever if this is always going to be your attitude from the get-go?

 

the problem is that the discourse from the sides of those defending the artist is almost never in good faith. i don't think i've ever once seen a user defending someone like MGK, Matt Skiba, JL, Kanye, Pinegrove, etc. approach a situation where they genuinely seem like they want to learn and grow. it's always just "IF YOU DONT LIKE THEM LEAVE."