General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 325

I probably could watch this all night.

 

Well, they're effectively saying that, so long as he keeps Apple's money overseas, he isn't paying taxes. I doubt we are going to see a reduction in the upcoming years, given the political climate. Regardless, he didn't say anything you said, he said it was "unfair", which is not the same thing. We can't lambast Trump for his shady tax deals, all of which I'm sure are legal to some extent, but give Apple a pass. There are very real political implications for Cook's reasoning and judgements on the fairness of the tax rates for major companies.

 

Eh Apple is especially bad though, right?
How Does Apple Avoid Taxes?

"Apple set up some Irish subsidiaries a mere four years after it was founded. Foreign sales, which account for 60% of Apple’s profits, are routed through these Irish subsidiaries and taxed nowhere. How is this possible, when the intellectual property that supports the value of Apple’s products is in the United States?

Apple has an Irish holding company with no operations or employees at the top of its foreign operations. This company also serves as a group finance company. Apple Inc., the U.S. parent of the whole group, pays U.S. tax on the investment earnings of this company. Otherwise, the holding company pays no tax to any government, and has not paid tax for five years. It claims tax residence nowhere."


Not that any of it is ok. And its a perfect example of a horribly corrupt system designed to benefit the extremely rich at the expense of everyone else, but they think we're stupid enough to think its ok because its not illegal because they lobbied for loopholes.
And besides:
"Even if Congress naively were to believe that tax-free repatriation of untaxed foreign profits were a good idea, we’ve been there, done that, and got bike oil on the T-shirt. In 2004, Congress granted a tax holiday, and companies with big stashes of offshore profits attributable to valuable intangibles—that’d be pharma and tech—repatriated billions of dollars in the form of dividends and executive bonuses."
Capitalism is fucked.

 

Holding companies are not uncommon. The tax code is bad, but the bigger issue is how do you encourage companies to repatriate foreign income when there is very little incentive to do so?

 

Uhm I'm no tax expert so correct me if this is stupid but why not draft the code so that companies can't defer taxes on "offshore" profits? Would that count toward holding companies? I'm really not sure.

 

the issue is that tax codes are basically a game of min-max - the govt tries to max, companies try to min. often they'll do that legally, through loopholes, and sometimes they'll do it illegally, through misrepresenting their finances. apple in this case is doing the former presumably, i dont know enough about tax codes, and they'll always be able to run circles around the government because they're better organized, better funded, and better employed for doing that.

 

Yeah, I think I'll stick to overthrowing the bourgeoisie as the answer to systematic corporate greed.

 

But that is also wrong, they are paying taxes. A lot. There may be a good argument to discuss tax rates, or even obligation of companies to go above and beyond (which I would easily argue Apple does), but the way to do that is to be honest and actually look at the issue. That article does not do that at all. It's grossly misleading and disingenuous to what Tim Cook actually said.

We don't know Trump's tax deals. I can't tell you anything about their legality of shadyness, he won't release his tax returns.

 

What does not bringing money into the country until you want to, that you specifically don't need and won't spend, *cause*? How is this tweet relevant at all?

 

I didn't post this because of what you were saying. I posted it because I saw it, thought it was funny, and this is probably the most appropriate place to share it on here. I can see why you took it that way, though.

 

You could rewrite the US tax code so that foreign income is also taxed in the US. Personally, I wouldn't take it off the table, but you would actually have to have a discussion to determine what is an equitable rate and whether it would potentially drive companies out of US.

There are certainly exceptions, but broadly, US based companies have foreign subsidiaries that manufacture and sell goods in foreign countries. They pay taxes on the income from those sales in those foreign countries. They don't bring the money back to the US because they will be taxed a second time and have zero need for the cash. There isn't necessarily anything sinister about it.

 

Ah. It's been posted here like thirty times. Usually in response to someone. My bad. Sorry bout that.

 

No worries! Sorry for sharing it again, I just hadn't seen it before.

 

Nothing "sinister" huh? I don't want to get into the semantics of what is sinister but when nearly 3/4 of the fortune 500 companies are avoiding taxes through offshore tax havens (and yes I call paying 0-6% out of what should be 35% avoiding taxes) I think something sinister might be going on. The fact that its systematic makes it worse, not ok. And I won't buy that it isn't causing problems. 620 billion dollars is a huge deal, especially when it doesn't have be sucked out of the lower class. But of course if that amount is a corporate stimulus package or apparently uncollected offshore tax profits its just fair game, no big deal. Its only a big deal if we're talking about bailing out student loans. No loopholes for struggling grads, that Jill Stein must be crazy.

 

The 35% tax rate you reference is US taxes paid on US taxable income. This isn't taxable income.

Try to limit the strawman stuff. I didn't say it's not a problem. In fact, I think I've suggested just the opposite. Just noting that it's a complex thing. Wait. Where the hell did student loans and the anti-vaxxer come from?

Anyway. Off for the night.

 

Trump’s Success Partially Hinges On You Watching Seinfeld

 

So after watching the Green Party town hall, my thoughts remain the same. I would still consider myself to be undecided, but definitely leaning toward voting for Hillary.

 

Dakota Pipeline Would Make Water the New ‘Oil,’ Devastating All but the Rich

 

The left must refocus on class, and show it still cares about workers | Owen Jones

 

Jason, I honestly don't know what you're referring to when you make claims of dishonesty. The article is pretty clear that they are avoiding repatriating billions of dollars.

I referenced Trump to make a point. We assume there is something to hide because he won't release them, but in this case, some are willing to give Apple a pass because they "do enough". Well, that's not how it works. Companies and the super rich who hoard their money overseas increase the tax burdens on those of us who work for a living. That is a political choice that has regressive political consequences.

 

Mr. Brexit sounds like a bad Pokemon NPC

 

www.whatpolls.com

cheeky

 

$72,000 seems like a pretty modest asking price for a settlement. The fact that they would go through all that for a marijuana-smuggler that they believe has been out of the game for some time is kind of funny, though.