MMA/UFC Discussion Thread MMA • Page 343

That's a bit unfair, but no question he came over way too late.

 

I’m not trying to be hard on the guy, I actually like Ben a lot and have been a fan of his for a while now, but there isn’t really anything to suggest he ever was one of the best. His record was largely made up of subpar competition (at little fault of his own), and the Lima and Koreshkov he fought weren’t exactly the same Lima and Koreshkov we have today.

Always felt to me like Ben was a very, very good fighter, but not nearly well rounded enough to be elite.

 

I get it, just that when he was in his prime the UFC wanted nothing to do with him. So if he was overrated coming into this with his undefeated record, it's only because the UFC didn't bring him in the first time.

 

True, but he certainly didn’t help his case by trash talking the president of the org after him making comments about his fighting style.

 

Dana talked major shit on him though first, I think.

 

I just mean it's unfair to say "No, Koreshkov and Lima weren't the same fighters as they are today" without considering that maybe the same is true for Ben (but in the opposite sense). Askren is still one of the only people to have beaten either of those guys to this day so I just can't see discounting those wins when analyzing his skills.

 

Not discounting any win of his, I’m just saying there isn’t anything on his record to suggest he was ever at the top of the heap, which I don’t think is an unfair assessment.

Nobody was saying Ben was past his prime or should retire before this rough patch against high level competition, so I don’t think it’s fair to say any part of these losses have to do with age or where he’s at in his career or anything like that. He’s taken very little damage over the course of his fighting career.

 

Ben fought against the guys earning those shots, not scrubs at the time. 5 title fights won in Bellator, and 4 in ONE. The majority of them being finishes. He was not over-hyped, he's just getting older and slower.

Also I can't stress the fact enough that the man talked insane amounts of shit that earned him 3 legend fights to start after a near two year layoff, one of which he won, and another that ended in 5 seconds which is hard to judge him off of. The Maia fight he certainly wasn't getting whooped in, but made some costly decisions that cost him the bout.

 

Right. As I said, Ben’s level of competition isn’t any fault of his own, but I don’t agree with just going easy on him and saying he’s getting older and slower after a rough patch, when nobody was really saying as such beforehand.

 

I look at somebody like Khabib's record and feel similar sentiments. I would call him a GOAT now with his last 5 wins, however the entire first half of his undefeated record is a collection of no name fighters that were never heard of again haha.

 

Agree completely. The first 20 some odd wins or so of Khabib’s career were impressive, sure, but the level of competition just wasn’t there.

Nowadays, however... haha

 

Khabib has like 18 wins against people I have absolutely zero clue about (maybe they were prospects in Russia at the time? Who knows)

his last 10 wins are great wins with some great names on his record but his early fights are some boxing can shit at a glance lmao

 

Yeah I don't know, that's a speculation that always happens with fighters who primarily fight outside of the main organization ("____ never fought anyone and looked like shit when he finally fought real competition").

To your point, I can't say for certain that a 5 second fight or a submission loss to Demian freakin' Maia proves that his abilities have gone downhill lol. But of course no one was calling for him to retire or saying he was past his prime before this set of losses - that doesn't make any sense. Why would we have had any reason to think that before we saw him go in there and have a rough go? That's where you lose me. Some guys just take a downturn later in their career (not necessarily always from damage), and it would be no surprise for that to happen after a layoff.

Is that the case? Maybe, maybe not. As you acknowledged, we don't know what he would have looked like against the UFC roster back in the day, but I'm just saying he has a win over the current Bellator champ (who beat a perennial UFC contender) so that's not something to ignore when you suggest he was overrated.

 

Former champion Askren considering retirement

 

Part of me feels bad for Ben cause I really wanted to see him be successful in the UFC. I’ve been a fan of him for a while and seeing a guy like him finally join the UFC was so exciting. Of course we all wish we got to see 2010-2015 Askren in the UFC but that’s just how it goes sometimes. He’s got great mic skills and there is no doubt that his mic skills are part of the reason his first 3 fights got him top level opponents. At the same time, he talked a big game and let a lot of people down. I still think there is hope for him, but he’s not gonna get any faster or stronger at this age.

 

He went to ONE when Lawler/Hendricks were starting their run, so he would have fit in tremendously with them. What an alternate timeline that would have been.

 

I hope he takes another fight. A rematch with Robbie or Anthony Pettis sounds fun.

 

Book the rematch Dana

 

Gonna assume he’s got an MMA movie in the works or something.

 

Or they’ve went super WWE with the BMF belt and he’ll present it to the winner lmao


Edit: yes

 

That’s been known for a little while though, that isn’t the announcement. The announcement is something different we’ll find out at the presser

 

Costa is injured and out of the Iggy fight

 

Yeah I just read surgery on his bicep is needed. Likely out for 8 months. I don’t think they’d had a real date set for that fight though just talk.

 

This is a loss for the UFC imo.