The EU Referendum

So there was a live televised debate regarding Britains position in the EU last night. It was Conservative Prime minister David Cameron taking the UKIP leader Nigel Farage. What is the point of that?

After 'renegotiating' Britains place in Europe prior to the campaign, Cameron is being forced to back the in campaign. But this is just to make it look like he did a good job with this negotiations and to hide the fact that he fell massively short of what he was hoping to achieve. Farage's sole policy is to get Britain out of Europe and this has made him a media darling. Not once has a reporter asked 'And then what?'.

It's claimed by the out campaign that we're paying £350 million a week To Europe that could be spent on the NHS. But we have a government that is rapidly privatising the NHS, making massive cuts to public spending and since getting back in Government in 2010 have cut the tax rate for earners over £100,000 from 50p to 45p. And yet we're suddenly expected to believe they're willing to pump spare money in to the NHS.

With us being a heavily racist nation, immigration has played a key role in both campaigns. With the leaders of the in campaign saying the figures show we need to control immigration from outside of Europe and the out campaign saying we need to restrict immigration altogether. Of the politicians gaining most media coverage, not a single one of them is pointing out that immigration is a two way street. That many Britons live, work or retire in the EU. None have mentioned the way people from Europe and beyond contribute to this country, both economically and culturally. After all, a group of Hungarian dancers won Britians Got Talent.

It's unsurprising to see where people from the outside looking in stand on the EU with Barrock Obama saying we should stay and, after having Brexit explained to him, Donald Trump said we should leave. I can only assume he thought Brexit was a snack we had between breakfast and leaving for work.

My currents thoughts is that either result spells disaster under a current Tory government. I think a vote to stay will see Cameron keep his job until the end of this term and will lead to a further rise to the far right parties like UKIP and anti immigration groups like the EDL. A vote out surely has to lead to David Cameron's resignation having failed on both his major targets regarding Europe. However, if the Tories keep power with us not a part of the EU I really worry how far they will go with the public sector cuts and the attack on workers without the protection of European law.

What we need is a Government that won't thrive of the fear they are able to cause.

 

The referendum takes place the 23rd June, with registrations to vote closing last night.

 

The Left-Wing Arguments For and Against Brexit | VICE | United Kingdom
Some small details I don't really agree with and I guess it could also talk about more positive reform within the EU, by and large this is a decent enough overview.

 

Curious what this means for Scotland. Correct me if I'm wrong please, but Scotland is more pro-EU than the rest of the UK no? Would an out vote renew calls amongst the SNP for a revamped independence push (especially given they hold 56 out of 59 seats in Scotland's Parliament)?

 

The SNP are pro-EU, but whether the Scottish people are is another question. I expect Brexit would lead to the SNP pushing for independence again. Nicola Sturgeon stated there will 'almost certainly' be a second referendum if we leave.

 

I have voted to Remain.

 

I think I'll do as much reading on the subject as possible before next Thursday and come to a final decision on Wednesday night.

For me the main reason to vote remain at the minute is fear of what the Tory party will do without the restrictions of the EU.

 

My biggest concern from talking to friends and colleagues is that there are a lot of passionate leave voters in there and that they site being able to control immigration as the main reason to leave the EU. I may be missing something but the ability to "control" or limit innovation will still fall with the current political party in government. This is likely to only ever be conservative or labour both of whom have failed to address the issue up until now. How does a leave vote suddenly address the problem? Also as has been commented the propaganda about saving £350m a week (enough to build a new nhs hospital!) is insulting. In small print it mentions that half of that comes back anyway and as if the remaining half will ever be pumped into the nhs.

I don't understand the economic reason for leaving either - surely it's higher risk?

My biggest worry is that many people read up about it and research but there will be a lot of people who will say " brexit will stop immigration so I vote leave." Without even trying to understand the implications either way.

Sorry for ranting post!

 

Very worried about the future of UK politics, regardless of tomorrow's vote.

Hate politics are now back in the mainstream media and I don't see them going away even if we vote to remain. Should we leave I fear how far to the right a lot of people will shift.

 

I have done my fair share of reading/research and I am firmly in the 'remain' camp. The fact that a large amount of the brexit camp's slogans/propaganda has already been proved to be exaggerations/completely false shows how little brexiters care about facts and just want to make a stand against "immigration" and want to "take our country back" - back from what?!?!?!?

I saw something today about the negative impact a leave vote would have on Premier League Football, and i'll bet if that piece reached enough people it would sure make some of these ill-informed dumbasses reconsider their leave vote!!!

 

My wife and I were discussing whilst watching the euros and my wife commented 'why don't the remain campaign claim that UEFA would not allow England to compete in the Euros or the champions league if we left the EU?' Although it'd be entirely false (but the leave campaign don't seem to care about that) it'd convince most of the people voting purely to 'solve immigration!'

 

And there'd be no more Eurovision for us, the travesty! Sarcasm fully intended haha

 

I'm very nervous about which way this will go.

 

Me too dude, seriously worried that the uk will end up in a right old mess

 

The entire debate has been infuriatingly ridiculous. The arguments to leave seem to be built almost exclusively on vague nationalistic platitudes, and the anti-intellectualism presented by the movement's leaders is flat out disturbing.

 

I am absolutely shitting myself about the prospect of this country blindly voting to leave.

 

i know very little about this (though i've read up a little bit) being from the US, but seeing a bunch of bands post about it and reading the comments is real fascinating

 

I knew absolutely nothing about this issue and don't have a dog in the fight, but I was curious so I watched that "Brexit:The Movie" video on youtube.
I know it is blatant propaganda, but I really thought they'd focus on immigration and "they're taking our jobs!" type rhetoric, but they really didn't talk about immigration at all, they're main argument was that tariffs on non EU goods and complex regulations meant to protect large European corporations from foreign and smaller European competition actually hurt European consumers, small businesses/startups, and foreign exporters from markets like Africa, and that it makes food prices and cost of living in Europe much higher than the rest of the world. They used Switzerland as an example of the kind of wealthy and democratic nation with low unemployment and low income inequality that UK could be without EU regulations. They make a big point about the EU being an undemocratic institution run by unelected bureaucrats who are not held accountable by anyone, while giving themselves huge paychecks, while the MEPs of the European Parliament are pretty much powerless.

I still don't which is the right way to go, but i have to admit upon further inspection the leave side seems alot less one dimensionally focused on immigration and xenophobia than I originally thought.

 

Let's stay together

 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/06/britain-s-eu-referendum

I find it interesting that Scotland seems to be widely in favor of remaining. Would be fascinating if the difference between the UK staying in leaving comes down to Scotland's failed independence bit.

Also doesn't that mean that, strategically, a Scot who really cares about Scottish Independence should actually consider voting to leave as it stands to reason that there certainly might be enough support for Scotland to break off from the rest of the UK if it means rejoining the EU.

but now I'll shut up about issues I know nothing about. I just thought the numbers were interesting.

 

Pretty much everyone I've spoken to today is in favour of leaving.

Feel a bit sick.

 

If it makes you feel any better, where I am, it was the opposite.

 

Good news.

Feels like a bit of weight off my shoulders now I've actually been to vote as well. Just have to wait and see now.

 

They probably didn't need to touch on immigration too much because so many people already believe their shitty stance on it. So many things about that movie have already been de-bunked, but so many people believe those de-bunking it are liars or just plain don't care. John Oliver did quite a humorous critique of that movie recently, well worth a watch.

All I can do is laugh though. I've taken the time to research as much as i could about this, and all the people i've spoken to about it have done fuck all reading & just say "we need to close our borders" and "we need to take our country back" - BACK FROM WHAT? WHO?

Donald Trump would be elected in this country, no question. That is how bad it is, & how eye-opening this ordeal has been for me. People just don't care about facts & reality when there are immigrants to blame their problems on...

 

asked this in the general politics thread before seeing this thread, so i'll ask here as well as someone who doesn't know or understand politics very well (that means "at all"): as a general way of understanding the severity of this possible change, would it be like a state separating from the United States?