General Politics Discussion (VI) [ARCHIVED] • Page 378

To me I feel like he is trying to say that there is already so many people struggling and in poverty in our country that just taking in anybody who’s anybody would just further that problem, especially cause you know that if we had open borders tons of people would want try to come here. He could have said it differently though.

 

I mean it would obviously have to involve massive changes to the entire Israeli political structure and massive amounts of international oversight but I think Americans would buy in very hard to a "one person one vote" campaign for Palestinian civil rights. If you guarantee their vote, including returned refugees, the demographics would be such that zionist hardliners would not be able to dominate the single state's politics. Of course nothing is guaranteed, but the alternative is an independent Palestinian only state that would face many of the same problems and probably eventually go to war with Israel anyway. The single, multiethnic and religiously diverse democratic state makes much more sense and is more consistent with "liberal" values as a whole.

 

its silly that this is even a topic because other candidates aren't even being asked about this. he should simply be advocating for reversing the especially brutal Trump policies and then continuing reforms to make the border less brutal and deadly.

 

seems fine, thank u black lesbian cop mayor lady, u r very woke

 

Why?

 

Because we do need accountability for who is coming in and going out of the country. We should absolutely take in more refugees and asylum seekers, and more immigrants in general that want to come here to better our lives. But, having an open border brings concern that Bernie partly pointed out, there is already a lot of disenfranchised and poverty filled areas here that we need to take care of. If we had open borders there are no doubts that tons of people who are living in poverty now would come here and I don’t think that country is able to handle that.

Plus, in terms of Bernie’s position, you would never win an election here if you are for open borders. He knows that.

 

There's no real help the poor people here vs help the poor immigrants arriving at our border argument. One does not prevent the other.

It's like saying we gotta stop terrorists coming into this country vs stopping terrorism already in the country. Just focus on terrorism across the board!

 

sounds like the “America first” argument to me /shrug

 

"You were born outside these imaginary lines so sorry you have to keep suffering" is not a really good argument. Nor does it grapple with the fact that American imperialism is a large contributor to international poverty.

 

Also I think the context of what we mean by open border is important. Are we talking about a free flow of people coming and leaving without a process as they please? Because that’s not feasible, and we would be unable to keep track of people and the benefits, especially when it comes to things like healthcare, welfare, taxes, and such. If we are talking about just not having quotas and limits on immigrants we allow in the country, that’s a different story.

 

1) i believe open borders are part of a just future.

2) even if one does not believe in open borders, he could try not to sound like Trump while arguing against them?

 

I get your point there, but I think most Americans do believe that Israel as a (mostly) Jewish state should exist because of the centuries of awfulness that they've endured as a people, and I think it would be easy to convince Americans that said state would go away in the one state solution because of the reasons you outlined.

I just think the only way it works at all there is if a 2 state solution with Israeli settlement BS rolled back a few decades and a co-managed (internationally managed?) Jerusalem for all religions to visit and etc. I think that's the only way to get sustained American investment into it. I'm no expert though so who knows. I think what Bernie is saying is what a lot of Americans are feeling there and I think even a lot of liberal/lefty Jews wouldn't be into a one state solution that effectively makes Israel a non-Jewish state.

 

This is just creepy af

 

It's 0% a surprise because anyone I know who likes Rogan are either idiots or are contrarians.

 

We’re gonna go to war

 

This stinks of what Bolton has always wanted.

 

She’s right.