2019-2020 NFL Season Thread [ARCHIVED] Football • Page 271

I really really never want any of my team's legends to become front office people because I don't want to have to hate them

Marino has a position with Miami but its not like he is the GM or anything

 

I could list all the All Pro players under his tenure (over a dozen) or the 30-40 Pro Bowl players as well, but they'll be written off for reasons people still haven't explained why it's valid to write them off. If he was the GM while they were acquired, he 100% should get credit for it. You could also point to the coaches and coordinators he put into place to build one of the greatest offenses ever and then one of the greatest defenses ever. But that will also be written off for whatever reason.

 

I genuinely don’t get defending John Elway to this point

 

Which of them did he draft or sign?

Peyton Manning
Aqib Talib
Von Miller (who a hamster could have drafted)

and even so, those good Broncos teams were 4 and 5 years ago at this point.

 

Also while we're at it, Elway was overrated as a player too.

 

Peyton Manning
Wes Welker
Aqib Talib
Demarcus Ware
Chris Harris Jr
Von Miller
C.J. Anderson
Emmanuel Sanders
T.J. Ward
Louis Vasquez

That's "just" a list of players that made All Pro or Pro Bowl that he specifically drafted or picked up in free agency. There's also a dozen other players who did very well there that sure, they were there already, but you still have to pick up coaching or coordinator talent to help them develop and perform year after year. And they did it in two directly opposite ways for 5 years straight.

The dude isn't the best ever and he's had a few off years now, admittedly, but it's a fact that since he became their GM, he's directly influenced his team to have more success that probably 3/4 of the league and it makes zero sense to chalk it up to him being lucky.

 

Reverse Randall

 

Also, talking about how Miller as "(who a hamster could have drafted)" or however you want to word it doesn't make sense either. There are guys touted as the next big thing year in and year out that either pan out or don't. But a good GM gets the right players and then hire coaching and other players that influence them to reach that elite level. Do people not remember Miller's character concerns? Elway was a HUGE part of him turning his life around and becoming a legit role model. Without Ware coming in and mentoring Miller, I'm positive he wouldn't have turned out to be as good as a player and person.

 

And to be clear again, it's not like I'm in love with Elway himself, I just can't stand inconsistent logic or these absurdly high bars that some people seem to have.

 

Ok so John elway was not bad in 2013/2014ish

John elway has been really bad since then

 

Lol, never mind I guess. It's easier to just ignore shit than have a discussion about it.

 

We’re having a discussion. Outside of those two years what has he done? Those draft years are absolutely abysmal. Last year looks solid so far. I’ll give him that.

 

John Elway is a horse toothed jackass. Go Birds.

 

It's not a discussion when I list details for the five years of incredible success and the response is essentially, "Okay, other than all of that, what has he done?"

That's just willfully ignoring everything positive and focusing only on the negatives, which I've already agreed with in the beginning of all of this anyways.

 

Man, other than having 20 straight winning seasons, five Super Bowl appearances, and 2 Super Bowl rings, that Tom Landry really wasn't all that good. He's lucky he fell into getting Staubach.

 

The Broncos draft classes (2018 excluded since it's a little too early) the past few years appear to be heading in a horrid direction.

I actually like their 2018 class. But 2014-2017---woof.

 

From Mile High to rock bottom, why John Elway is to blame for Broncos disaster

I'm posting it again because I don't think you read it, but this highlights everything wrong with him while also listing the good decisions he's made

 

Agreed, he hasn't been good the last few years.

 

I did read that article and I've already said multiple times that he hasn't been successful the last few years, but ignoring his first five or chalking them up to luck is wrong.

 

Lol DJax got his 10 back.

 

I hate Elway mostly because he's the reason I was birthed into sadness. I was born between The Drive and The Drive II and on a day when Montana (add him to the list too) beat the Browns.

Also, he's not a great GM. Not overly horrible, but he could've been fired.

 

I back this.

 

I also think he's overrated as a player. He was obviously good, but I don't think I'd have him anywhere close to top ten or anything.

 

But alright, fuck it. I'm clearly in the minority on Elway, moving on:

Texans fans, I'm reading that this guy is actually pretty good for depth? Is that true?

 

Weird that I haven’t seen the Colts linked to any of these guys. I guess it doesn’t matter until ink meets the paper, but I’m starting to think they’re not going to address pass rush until the draft