Accountability in Music • Page 220

That’s gonna a be a “better off without” from me.

 

THE VIBE IS ALWAYS RIGHT

thats killing me. it's almost as bad as datsik's "i'm a vibe reader" apology

 

Love unconditionally, especially your abusive friends. What a dipshit worldview.

 

There is absolutely a condition on my love and it’s don’t abuse people.

 

I truly don’t think they’re aware that their first statement was shit and that this new one isn’t much better.

I commented on their Instagram, said “remember when you defended a dude accused of sexual assault because he was your friend?” And they directed me to read their new statement to which I called out the awful first statement and the 3 year gap of no accountability. The response was “People change in 3 years. We’ve made apologies in person to the appropriate people. If you feel you can’t support us, no need to.”

 

This is such a weird response. Like, if you'd changed, and realized your mistake, there's a way to ask for forgiveness from the music community, from your fans, and find a way back ... it's not releasing a dumb statement when you're dropping a new album. Fuck all the way off with that.

 

Maybe controversial, but I love some people that have done bad things in their lives. Even a few that continually let me down. I would not publicly support them or "destroy my reputation" for them, (or listen to their pop-punk album), but I do understand, and empathize with to a degree, loving someone like that. I wish I could be black and white on that issue; it'd have made my life easier.

 

I have friends who have done bad things as well, and have attempted to be a positive influence and resource in their lives. I worry that if I cut them out of my life, it would let potentially harmful voices have more influence on where they go from their negative behavior.

Obviously I have a line and there are certain things that I feel like I’d be unable to reconcile.

 

I think forgiveness is an essential part of life, but I have no time for it when it's people who continually fuck up or someone who makes a mistake or does something bad and then has zero remorse or attempt at restitution from the hurt individual(s).

Of course, the victims of said bad choices or mistakes or whatever are more important.

 

There's a difference between "doing bad things" and then trying to turn your life around, and doing bad things and either showing no remorse or cynically trying to manipulate your way back into people's good graces. I'm all for people who make mistakes atoning and genuinely trying to be better, but the second group of people aren't worth anyone's time, no matter how much I may have loved them beforehand. I would always prefer people who have wronged others to try and make amends, but at some point my willingness to help has a limit.

Just in this situation, as an example: I was a huge fan of Better Off's last record. Enormous. I would gladly have welcomed them back if they had realized their mistake 2.5 years ago, apologized then, and spent the time between then and now working to improve the scene and make it safer/more welcoming/less tolerant of abusers. But instead they dug their heels in and waited for three years until they were about to put out new music. They chose to be cynical opportunists instead of genuinely remorseful. But if things had gone the other way, and they'd announced this record now, I would have been fine listening and supporting it. It's a case-by-case thing.

 

The reality is that while life is not black and white and we can support or try to guide people in our lives who have fucked up, publicly advocating for them in an instance like this is a hard no. (For me at least.) Forgiveness is in the hands of the victim, and I don't see her voice anywhere in this. You don't HAVE to have a music career to live life and make money. Make your apologies and get a job at Target or something.

 

Exactly.

I think there's a big difference between publicly supporting them like that and not writing them off and helping them without it needing to be in some weird way on Twitter.

 

Right, exactly. If I had been close friends with Luke back in 2016, I would have not said a word about it or my support of him publicly and worked in private to try and convince him that standing by the fill-in bass player was a bad idea and he should apologize for it.

 

Agreed. Public support/advocation/defending isn’t something that’s part of the equation for me.

 

100% this. I still remember an argument I had with a friend who was defending T*m L*mbesis. She was so worried about his path to redemption and recovery and how he was going to make a living, and I just felt like I was screaming into a void, like sis there are other jobs!!! These people being afforded the opportunity to continue operating in the same spaces they abused is mind boggling to me.

EDIT: In this case, defended the abusers, but that tells me all I need to know about their opinions on creating safe spaces for women in their little boys club.

 

And I'm sorry, but I disagree with the characterization that someone is "not worth my time." It's to my own detriment, and I wish my brain didn't work that way, but it does. If not me, then who? Some other outside source of constant toxicity? Youtube?

I lost my cousin to suicide and regret every single day I didn't put in more time when I could have.

 

I still can't understand for the life of me why people get so worked up defending someone who chose to make music the way they earn a living and then chose to blow all that up by doing something like hiring someone to murder their spouse. Like, you created a livelihood based on making sure people continue to like you and then you did everything possible to make them despise you. It's your own fault and it's time to find a new line of work.

 

Plus no one cares about what jobs the victims can't get because of their abusers

 

::cough:: Christine Blasey Ford ::cough::

 

I'm so sorry that happened. I truly didn't mean for my generalization to bring up any bad memories.

 

My condolences for your cousin, Jason. That's a horrible thing to experience and wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

The path to redemption depends on the severity of the crime or bad behavior obviously, R Kelly can't be redeemed but everyone has said and done things they regret

 

I really appreciate the conversation happening in here right now. Even just the acknowledgement that it’s not black and white is huge.
I don’t want to necessarily derail and make this about “us” instead of the situation at hand, but I think a lot of us struggle with morality in this type of thing and feeling we’re doing the ‘wrong’ thing.

Even as a community trying to parse out where the line is- for us, for others- is so important.

 

I believe people can do wrong things, and you can forgive them for doing those things, especially if they regret doing them in the first place. But there will always be consequences for actions, and in the case for musicians, a lot of times the consequences should be for them to not have their platform for sharing their music. It doesn't mean we wish ill will on them (in most cases), just that they shouldn't hold the position that they used to. I'm probably preaching to the choir, just wanted to type out my thought process.

 

I kind of wish there was a place to discuss the overarching themes of this type of thing without any specific situation attached. Because any time there is a situation it gets looked at too closely and of course takes attention off of the real story of the real victims etc. then anything anyone says gets looked at through the lens of the current situation
But the themes and morals of these discussions is so much of a bigger picture that deserve so much discourse just on its own.
anyway I don’t have a suggestion so I’m essentially useless but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯