Taylor Swift’s Representatives Again Deny She Gave Permission for “Famous” • Page 3

Actually a lot of white men were being chastised for defending a rapist on absolute punk and rightfully so. I don't see why Kanye should be above that?

 

Lol what

 

I'm glad this issue amuses you.

 

I don't know why you keep specifically seeking out these threads just to retread and cause issues as if we haven't addressed you directly several times in the past. Basically everything that happened with Pure Noise Records and Front Porch Step, assuming that's what you're referencing, and Kanye shortly thereafter, was a trial run. The community had never dealt with something of that magnitude before. We've learned from it. We've directly applied the knowledge we've gained to situations on this site and incorporated it into how we moderate. It is against the rules of the forum, not to discuss, but to shame and attack others for where they draw the line regarding problematic artists. Your commitment to doing so is weird and not welcome here.

We haven't forgotten, but we've moved forward. You should too.

 

I assume you'll be going in to the Swans thread and telling people there to move on as well?

 

Because there's a difference between someone who has shown some disgusting views who people can be appalled by and even use in a productive manner to show why the views are so damaging, and someone who has directly scarred another human for life, and scarred the person's family and friends and shown themselves unfit to be under a spotlight in a productive manner.

I promise, this is a discussion we've had a lot. When Pablo first premiered AP got nearly split in half, and the comparison to Front Porch Step and what McElfresh did came up a lot. I stayed out of it as much as I could, because while I didn't agree that what Kanye said was the same as what Jake did, I also didn't feel comfortable defending Kanye. After spending a lot of time thinking about where I stood, this is the conclusion I came to. If Kanye did what McElfresh or Gira did (and I hope he never does), I would be in full agreement with you. But there is a big difference between what Kanye said and say, what Kevin Gates has done.

I understand your frustration though because it feels like he's getting a free pass at times, and that can feel infuriating. I think it's very important to keep the dialogue open and push forward in a productive manner, rather than sweep it all under the rug.

I'm also torn on what the best way to approach conversations on artists like Swans is. I know on AP, staff members would post disclaimers on what happened with NGN and FPS on each news story and I wonder if they feel it was the right call or not, and if it helped the situations at all on the website. I'm not sure.

It's all very messy and I hope you don't think I'm discrediting your view because it is a valid one: a man is in a spotlight glorifying misogynistic behavior. It's not right.

 

Because Kanye is not a rapist.

But to get into a little more nuance, the point isn't that just because some people were chastising someone for listening to or supporting a morally repugnant artist, that means others should chastise them for listening to a morally repugnant artist. We just shouldn't do it, period. We all draw our own lines on where we do and don't support artists whose morals conflict with ours. We can speak out against those horrible things those artists have done, Kanye included. But going after fans is not the way to go about that. There are multiple threads on this site dedicated to controversial and complex discussions about morality and art and accountability for artists, and we're all free to have those conversations there, about Kanye or Woody Allen or anyone else.

 

Have you been in the Swans thread? We've literally been in there working with users for two days to find a better way to handle these situations as they arise. Also completely separate/incomparable situations.

 

That Swans thread is such a mess. I can at least try to understand still listening to their music, but once it went to discrediting a victim I got the hell out of there.

 

I didn't accuse Kanye of being a rapist, I accuse him of defending one, which is what he did.

 

I agree with all of what you have said here.

The bit that infuriates me is the people who raise issue about Kanye get a much closer stronger backlash than people who raise issue about other artists.

 

I think I misread your wording, I thought you were asking why Kanye wasn't getting the same response as a rapist.

 

That sure is what it read like. Hence why I lol'd

 

You're entirely right, it happens that way a lot and it's sad. It seems like it all stems from "If they're criticizing this artist they're attacking me for liking them" and causes people to become overly defensive in some cases and lash out. It shouldn't be that way. Maybe I'm naive but I love the idea of people who support an artist like Kanye or Lacey or Mayer or any artist who has a history of glorifying very problematic viewpoints on women and how valuable we all are as humans to be able to look at the issue in a different way, even if they do separate the artist from the art, and be able to say "While I like this I won't defend what he said because it's not right and I agree with you." And just leave it at that. It's basically how I feel, yeah I like Kanye, I'll listen to Kanye at home or in my car and enjoy it, but I agree what he's saying is fucked up and won't ever endorse that, nor will I ever discredit people who won't listen at all, nor will I discredit people who will buy albums and go to shows.

tldr: You're right