Accountability in Music • Page 194

I don't have all that much of value to add but there are a ton of studies on how people hypersezualize black women and how people are conditioned to think that black people can somehow withstand/tolerate pain and abuse to higher extents than white people, so I think (Hope?) thats sorta along the lines of what chance was saying as in "we're conditioned to undervalue and erase black women, and I'm guilty of it as well". Someone with better knowledge of this can probably expand on my point but studies that prove this have been posted here or in the politics threads.

 

Maybe so, maybe it’s a great article, but I’m not giving pitchfork any more traffic or clicks for thinkpieces about abuse in music that they enable

 

The investigative report into the maga bro at the metalcore show gave me serious side eye

 

Most of this argument could be broken down to “I know that these girls were groomed and then failed systematically as well as put under constant threat of violence, but why didn’t they tell someone?”

 

Does anyone know what this is about?

 

i saw this yesterday but idk if it's what that tweet is referring to

 

upon further research I guess Kississippi made an offhand remark about that Movements lineup being so dude-heavy and someone revealed that Movements had actually asked them to be on the tour and they turned it down

 

Mostly a few people were like sucks this happened again in regards to movements tour being all men and people responded with like “oh why are people saying that pat MURDERS women and needs to be CANCELLED” even tho I’m pretty sure at minimum 95% of ppl discussing it weren’t saying that. Lots of derailing and exaggerating the original discussion to make it seem more like evil call out culture than it was

It also felt weird that they tried to use kississippi turning down the tour against her because like, they just cancelled a full headliner because her partner was in a bad van accident and they’re replacing the drummer they kicked out for being abusive. It’s been rocky touring for them, but that doesn’t mean they can’t want the best for their peers

 

R. Kelly Makes a Surprise Club Appearance Amid Allegations

 

There's a really weird "us vs. them" dynamic that tends to crop up in these conversations on Twitter with women who work behind the scenes on tours (see the original thread Jason posted - Kat brought it back around somewhat at the end but the middle was a mess, and that happens a lot) and female musicians and it just bums me out so hard because I've been BOTH of those and I don't see why it has to be that way. It just contributes to the idea that all female musicians are a) singers, b) entitled brats who want special treatment and c) lazy and expect to be handed things. It's just really disheartening because that hasn't been my experience at all and it's not fair to expect female artists to take EVERY TOUR that's offered to them because if they don't they'll be "letting down the cause" or be used as an example of "well we tried women don't really want to work for this".

 

I was mulling thoughts before bed last night and couldn't shake it ... and reading that post this morning really helped.

 

I do think it's kinda weird she would jab at Movements when they specifically tried to take her band on tour but people are getting way more bent out of shape about an offhand tweet than they should be. Like, this situation isn't nearly worth the discourse it's caused lol

 

I get why you feel that way but I disagree. She's been public about her band's struggles and there are a million reasons to turn down a tour, and "it wasn't cool enough" was probably not on that list. If anything, her proximity to the situation probably has her feeling like "...cool, so they asked ONE band that wasn't all dudes and then called it a day when we couldn't do it".

Whether or not that's true, I'm guessing that's the feeling that inspired the jab. Without knowing specifics, we can't know, but it also wouldn't be a far fetched assumption on her part.

Totally agreed that this shouldn't have ruffled feathers, but that's what happens when women are loud about things. It always ruffles feathers, even if it shouldn't be a big deal.

 

i'm ignorant within the metrics of touring and booking bands so idk how a band gets on a tour but there are so many other great bands that have representation. am i reading this wrong? Like did they just ask one woman fronted band and be like 'oh well we tried'. like if Kississippi the only woman fronted band in the scene

 

We can't know the answer to that last bit, but being a woman in a band... I'd bet my baby toe that's exactly what happened, and now she's being used as a representative for what all women in bands do in the discourse instead of being treated as an individual. When whats-their-face dropped a tour because their billing wasn't big enough, there was no discourse about how that's why men in bands in general are the reason they don't succeed or whatever. They were treated as an individual case. Same crap, different day.

 

Yeah, I can agree with this. None of us are privy to the details of the situation so that may very well be the case. Booking tours is hard but there are plenty of other bands with women out there and it's perfectly fair to wonder if they tried beyond Kississippi. I wasn't doubting her reasons for not taking the tour, I know her band has had a challenging few months here and she doesn't owe it to anyone to take on tours she doesn't want to

 

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you made the "cool enough" comment! Reading my response again, that's how it might've looked. That was referring back to the original twitter thread Jason referenced.

 

yeah it's weird to comment on tour lineups like that because i feel like there's so many bands that get asked to go on tour and who turn it down before the lineup goes public, but there's also so many tours that probably just text their band friends and put a lineup of their bros and are like welp we asked our Token Woman Singer and she said no so we're just gonna do the same 5 pop punk warped tour bands that we do every year. when i used to book my old band's shows, we'd try to get representation from new bands and bands with women/poc but we struggled to find female-inclusive bands to play with us bc those bands are way cooler/have no advantage to playing with us/would be a waste of their time, but then there are so many trendy bands here/on tour that don't make an effort.

 

I often read the replies of a tweet to see who is agreeing with it, who it's resonating most with, and with what arguments. A lot of the replies to that original thread were variations of "there are just more men than women in bands so nbd."

Also, I don't understand why people are like this:

Like, what are you doing? This is why I barely read my Twitter mentions and barely tweet anymore. It's just ... too much.

 

My band has a mini-fest type of show this weekend that we put together with 10 bands. I really wanted more bands on the lineup with female members besides us. I reached out to at least a dozen and only one other band with a female was able to do it. We had a deadline and we had to roll with the bands that could do it.

(Edit: This was supposed to have posted like 10 mins ago but my work's internet went out whoops lol)