General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 117

Why Do We Talk About Millennials Like They're All Middle Class? | VICE | United Kingdom
This is quite good

 

Ban all guns

 

Well, the handgun is far and away used in more gun deaths than the AR-15. It isn't even close. Kids are being killed with handguns all day, every day. Not many people actually suggest banning handguns, so why the focus on the AR-15?

I think culture plays a much bigger role than access to weapons, mental illness, or religion.

 

I don't agree, but at least you have a consistent and logical viewpoint. There is at least a discussion to be had there. Banning AR-15s alone doesn't solve anything.

 

I mean it absolutely does but seeing your opinions, many of them factually wrong, we will never agree so it's pointless to even try and discuss it. I was just throwing my three word opinion because it makes me physically ill to see proponents of AR-15's especially after what just fuckin happened in Orlando.

 

Diversity does not inherently create violent conflict. Marginalization/subjugation of "others" and the hateful cultural attitudes perpetuated by that are what lead to violent conflict. Same root, different cause and onus of responsibility. Incredibly important distinction. We are the only country where this happens so frequently - we are NOT, however, the only diverse nation with established individual freedoms. We just like to pretend that we are.

 

We don't have to agree man but there is no need to go into attack mode and create uncharitable interpretations of each other's viewpoints.

 

I don't entirely agree, but maybe a better way I could have worded it would be that diversity brings conflict, our culture adds the violence?

 

the entire idea that anyone is claiming ar-15's are responsible for all, most, or even more than 2% of gun violence is absolutely absurd. no one is saying that. ar-15s are, however, disproportionately responsible for the worst mass shootings happening in the last twenty years. handgun violence and accidents are almost a different issue entirely, one that could probably be effected by something like, say, stiffer gun control and regulation measures that are constantly advocated for by everyone who might propose banning ar-15s?

 

My issue with your take is the idea that this kind of violence is somehow inevitable as opposed to being a result of the climate we have created. I just fundamentally believe you are wrong. It's the argument that most groups who perpetuate hate and violence hide behind in order to remove responsibility from themselves for what they're doing. Again, we're the only country where this happens on a constant basis.

 

the whole "diversity inherently breeds conflict" is a favorite talking point of white nationalists that i've seen, FWIW.

 

Fair point. But isn't this kind of violence just a modern version of the kind of cultural and religions conflicts that have taken place since the beginning of human kind?

 

yep, it is an extension of a racist critique of "multiculturalism" that serves to justify the existence of "white genocide"

 

Yes. But my point is that those conflicts have always been because of human decisions and the climates we've created, as opposed to being necessary, pre-ordained and unavoidable. Especially today, when global isolation is no longer a factor in the way it once was - we no longer have any excuse.

Saying that "this is just the way it is" removes our responsibility to fix it. That is not okay. We have the power to live differently.

 

Yeah, I definitely regret the tone of defeatism. I am not advocating for that. I am basically saying that these suggesting that political grandstanding on both sides about how "their" ideas would have prevented shootings like this is pretty much a non-starter for me. Guns may be the means, but there is another cause that can't be addressed by politicians, getting pissed on social media, or accusing people of being a neo nazi (ahem). In fact, I would argue that the incredible polarization of cultural and political ideology is a contributing factor.

So, to summarize, we just need to calm down, treat people well, and listen instead of argue.

 

no one accused you of being a neo nazi, we simply remarked that your point is often verbatim what is trotted out by those kinds of people.

 

Wharf did before he deleted his post. I imagine, as I hope you do, that the context in which they make those statements is different than mine.

 

nope i said they are neo nazi talking points

 

it is often the way someone makes the jump from "mildly irritating person with poorly thought out views" to "explicitly racist person who thinks we should deport anyone who isn't white." It was strange to see it trotted out here.

 

Fair enough Wharf.

 

I can see that there isn't much good will here, so I don't think continuing to go back and forth with you is going to do either of us any good. Don't you agree?

So let's just quit now while we're ahead.

 

I generally side eye anyone making what are usually white supremacist arguments, yeah.

 

Much stricter gun control + ban on semi-automatic weaponry = progress. Not sure what else is there to be said.

 

Orlando sentinel has a profile on a lot if not all of the victims. Heartbreaking to read them.

 

Apparently the Pulse shooting was not carried out with an AR-15. The gun was a Sig Sauer MCX, which seems to be similar to an AR-15 but with more features.

Odd that the media has so widely gotten this detail wrong.

The gun actually used is more deadly than the AR-15, if anything.