Pinegrove - Skylight (September 28, 2018) Album • Page 96

Co-sign everything here. Was going to type something myself but no need.

 

restorative justice or rehabilitation being defined by individuals privately seems like a really large blind spot for those not involved in the situation to formulate any sort of acceptable response to the situation as a whole.

For situations of violence or assault, that are clearly at the extremes of the scale (ie BN) I get the hardline pushback from posters ensuring that people attempt to reflect on their relationship with the band or their output. And the “policing” of folks not taking it into account the severity of the claims/facts as the right way to confront those posters.

For things like this. It seems a little murkier.

 

And I would say that wishing death on someone not being the major issue when it happens is a major issue. I get everything else you’re saying though. I’ve definitely missed some stuff and I’m not the most informed to be making an opinion one way or another which is why I was addressing tone more than substance.

 

The first part of this is really immature and ironically enough is the exact kind of hostile, toxic, unproductive posts you highlight at the end of your post.

As to the rest of it, well, we know there are more victims (and I mean know like they’ve said so although I don’t know the exact count) and we know that the victim that came forward and started this is not comfortable with how the narrative has continued. Sure not everyone knows that and not everyone will comb through the earlier posts but laboring under a misapprehension or strawmaning that everyone here is continually shutting down productive conversation isn’t really a good step towards common ground.

For a lot of us that are maybe uncomfortable with the music being discussed publicly I think it only exacerbates this issue when users jump in to try and make this about other users being mean or w/e. Doesn’t it upset you (like Spo above when I say “you” I mean like broadly speaking to those who are reading this) to know that the victims may visit this website and see this kind of ouroboros discussion going on?

Like was said above, if you want to listen privately then that’s all well and good but we’re going to push back against positive public support including questioning the victims and trying to keep this thread “on topic” w/e that means. I know you and I have clashed on here in the past and I’m sorry for the way I was to you but I urge you and the others to maybe look into this stuff more and read the various great posts that so many women have made in regards to this specific instance and in general.

 

This isn't a black and white situation, like Brand New was OR Like Brand New, this isn't a black and white situation?

 

On top of everything pretty much anyone else has said, there are plenty of people that have been able to talk about listening to/enjoying the album while being skeptical of the whole situation. One person wishing death on Evan is not representative of 90+ pages of discussion

 

Obviously not. I'm just saying posts like that don't help anyone. That kind of emotionalism tends to push away the people that you (again, broadly speaking "you") are trying to educate and it reflects badly on people with the same negative opinion of Evan who are actually being informative and thoughtful about the situation. I don't think many people agree with me on that point.

I'm a weird bird though. I'd much rather have a cool conversation with someone who's 100% different than me than a semi-hysterical conversation with someone who's 100% the same.

Anyway, I need to be done with this. I've let myself get behind on a few assignments and I don't think I've contributed enough to this thread to warrant that. I appreciate the conversation and especially @OhTheWater for bringing me up to speed.

 

when people are genuinely upset about what’s going on and you have people just posting “lol this thread,” I’m not sure what kind of reactions you’re really expecting

 

Yeah it’s not like the other side of this is really opening up the discussion. It’s frustrating to have to go through this with the same users in the same threads ad nauseam.

 

I agree. I think it’s bad on both sides of the spectrum.

 

the banality of this civility fetish both sides shit my word

 

“Emotionalism”

 

No, you’re misunderstanding. Us responding aggressively to this exhausting discussion isn’t equatable to discrediting the victims or insisting on ignoring this to discuss the music or trying to make this all about you when there are real victims who are hurting due to Evans actions and the band that he continues to front tries to play off how goofy they are.

 

I think you’re actually misunderstanding me. I agree with every bit of that. The emotional responses here are (I believe) far more grounded in reality than people who are willing to blindly defend Evan. My “both sides” comment sort of implies otherwise. Forgive me.

I do have a civility fetish though and I don’t mind owning it. I think it goes a long way in championing whatever cause you’re trying to champion. And I think that it’s a pretty important thing as it applies to this thread, since we’re all actually coming into contact with one another, that we give some room to talk things through. If people are weary of that then I don’t understand why this thread isn’t closed.

Anyway, that’s what I was addressing and it seems clear now that that’s where we disagree. I’ve obviously done nothing to help and I’m looking increasingly full of myself so I’ll bow out now.

 

I can’t imagine an existence where you only post when there is controversy.

 

Pretty consistent with most of your posts! Keep up the good work!

 

It's validation from my friends and peers like this that keeps me going. Appreciate the support, I'll do my best.

 

Anyone give the "Skylight II" a listen? Acoustic version of the whole album - really good companion piece.

 

I probably will soon, been meaning to give it a try

 

my download link is still dead until feb 14. However, someone on /r/indieheads provided it to me. It's pretty great. They almost sound like demo versions, which makes it cool i guess.

 

Where can I find this?

 

Was that extended Cardinal album always up on Spotify?

 

No that happened recently.

Skylight II is cool. I wish it was more like the Tiny Desk Sessions instead of just Evan and a guitar though.

 

pretty crazy they played both of their records in full on that last string of shows