2018-2019 NFL Season Thread Football • Page 1023

In general, I think the arguments in this thread are all in good fun

 

I mean, I certainly thought it was all in good fun. Not like I'm seeing red and cursing people out because they like Peyton Manning lol.

 

I'm all in for having a good fun debate back and forth, but it is annoying when people purposefully ignore valid points and then claim nobody is providing anything.

 

I like jokes, in good spirit, adds levity.

But I said I think he’s the best at moving an offense. I disagree that him being beaten in career stat columns says otherwise.

 

I like Brady better because he’s a cheater. Do whatever it takes to get the job done.

 

I don’t think I’d want the New England fan to waver on his opinion that Manning is overrated, tbh. It’s part of what makes that (mostly one sided) rivalry fun.

I’d happily argue back that Brady is propped up by an elite coach, over half his titles were driven by an elite defense (and if he didn’t have those, he’s not considered the GOAT), and that even Matt Cassel and Brian Hoyer could succeed in that offensive system.

 

Hot take: Brady is better in commercials than Manning. Mostly because in the commercials I remember him in, Brady didn’t have any dialogue, where every time Peyton showed up with Papa John or Jason Isabelle or whatever I have to hear his dumb folksy voice attempt comic delivery

 

That meme where a football passing machine would have goat status under Bill lol

 

Please don't subject me to Brian Hoyer lol. he is verrrrry bad. I honestly, not even trying to get under Matt's skin, think Danny Etling is better.

 

Dan Marino > all

fuck all ya'll

 

This thread is trying to strip away the nuance from a debate that is extremely nuanced

 

Peyton Manning owned and did ads for Papa John's. He'll never be #1.

 

I’m just laughing at somebody using rule changes against Manning while supporting Brady and ignoring that shit with him.

Brady: Clutch
Rodgers: Arhletic ability/clutch
Manning: predicting defenses
Brees: Stats (although I personally don’t really value stats in GOAT convos)

Manning was shredding people all of the time pretty much from his second season to his second to last season. Brady/Rodgers are who you want if you have to drive for the win. I don’t think Manning is the GOAT, but he is definitely deserving of being in the convo at the least. Brees I would have to say is out of it for me. Rodgers has the potential to be the GOAT if he can sustain things for a little while longer

 

And if Rodgers can win another super bowl that would help

 

want some cool stats?

the Dolphins are 196-196 the past 25 years

they are 20-20 under Gase

they are 4-4 this year

 

We’re pretty much the same since 1996 :(

 

Mike Tomlin has the highest winning percentage of any Steelers coach in history, and people still want to run him out of town every other week.

 

The hate he gets astounds me.

 

This is the main reason I’m not arguing

Do I think he’s top 3? If you’re asking me I say yeah and I could give you all a long essay why. But I don’t care to defend his legacy because it should have never began

Brees is a real good dude so if you put him above Peyton I ain’t mad at it. I think he’s not as hard to beat as Peyton was, but I like him a lot more and he deserves the records

 

Yeah Tomlin hate is so dumb and so obviously racially motivated. I don’t even think it’s that hard to argue he’s been as good if not better than Cowher, who is beloved in Pittsburgh and one of the most iconic 90s coaches.

 

Alright I’ll bite.

Peyton literally didn’t need his offensive coordinator. He was an OC on the field. Pep Hamilton admitted that they’d plan together but Manning made most of the decisions on the field. He didn’t just make audibles, he essentially called all the plays and made all the adjustments.

Do you guys not remember that he spent 30 seconds every play, no huddle the whole game, barking directions to all 10 other players? He did that so often that they actually had Peyton’s AI do that in Madden games and you had to sit through the full play clock even if you chose a play quickly. And to prevent other teams learning his hand signals, he used a lot of fake ones too, and changed them every year.

Running game included, not even just pass plays! He would see the defensive alignment, set up the blocks, tell Joseph Addai where to go and call a whole running play 25 times a game. Most QB job is on rushing downs - hand ball off, don’t fumble, reverse the play if you see an overload blitz. That’s it.

Take Brees away from Payton or Brady away from Belicheck and neither one comes close to what they became. I could see the argument that Rodgers carries McCarthy but Rodgers still doesn’t have as much say in that offense as Peyton did in the Colts, and if he did, well the Packers are demonstrably shitty at calling situational plays anyway lol.

And he honestly had better regular season success than pretty much anybody. I get that playoffs are more important but really just elite Bill Belicheck and the Steelers elite defense were the only things he couldn’t figure out, and they were the ones who beat him repeatedly. Otherwise he was scheming so far ahead of 30 different NFL teams that it was laughable to think the Colts wouldn’t win. A few times the Jags, Ravens and Chargers got him. And I’m talking about, a few times in TEN YEARS.

And I’m pretty sure still holds the record for 4th quarter comebacks so saying he wasn’t clutch is nonsense. I’ve seen him put up 31 points in the fourth quarter and overtime and win by a field goal more than once (maybe the very end of the third quarter was the first score).

Peyton is for sure top 3 with Brady and Rodgers. Brees has the numbers but he also straight up gets stymied by defenses more often than the other 3, and Sean Payton just inflates his stats far more in Saints victories. One thing that tilts stats in Brees favor is, he has used short passes as a sort of running game since way back when he had Reggie Bush - Darren Sproles got a LOT of that volume, for example.

In the playoffs, Peyton honestly just couldn’t handle Belicheck or the Steelers D and both were dominant in the AFC for his whole career. Also, he sucked in cold weather, being a dome team was a big factor in the Colts playoff failures as well. Brady and Roethlisberger, meanwhile, are both amazing in the cold.

 

See! This was what I was looking for. And I’m sure you didn’t dig through it but I did give him props for the mental aspect of his game.

 

I would like it if he wasn’t such a bitch about the other team committing penalties. Hypocrisy is not a respectable trait.

You either play football raw or you whine about the rules. It’s weak to cheat but then go tattle to the refs when you get hit at all

 

Agree with your bottom 2, the Rodgers GOAT talk especially started waaaay too early, it’s nauseating.

As for the first thing, maybe Brees isn’t the best example, but for the sake of a different perspective, I think in these kinds of debates people undervalue sustained status as the 2nd or 3rd best. If QB X is the best for 5 years, QB Y is best for 5 years, and QB Z is 2nd best for 10 years, I think Z has just as good a case. I think the differences in QBs at this level of play is almost laughably small, so gimme that sustained no.2 without hesitation.

I guess Peyton might even be a weirdly more appropriate example for this, though as others have alluded to, people are forgetting how back and forth the goat debate between Peyton and Brady was. His last couple seasons are injecting some massive recency bias.

 

Take notes, TJ/Cowboys Fan. This last page is how you do it. Not "ignore everything but one extremely vaguely defined aspect" and then tell people they're ignoring you when they don't accept that argument.

Only thing I want to add is let's not pretend like Pro Bowls mean too much. Fans, coaches, and players voting have a huge impact on the selection, automatically disfavoring those in small markets and unpopular teams. Manning was the most popular QB in the NFL, of course hes being voted into the Pro Bowl. Terrell Suggs admitted to voting for Ryan Fitzpatrick over Brady because he hated the Patriots.