Pinegrove - Skylight (September 28, 2018) Album • Page 57

So @Eclipse wrote a GREAT post about accountability and restorative justice in the other thread. Posting below, because I think we can all benefit from the context provided.

 

This is not the interaction I mentioned above. But here is one I just had with someone. Im completely fine with them feeling this way, but to me this isn’t like information that they know that we don’t.

 

Thanks for sharing this. I completely get feeling like that re: the article but lol if that post is just because they find Pinegrove "boring"... idk

 

yeah if the first thing that comes to mind is along the lines of “_____ sucked anyway” it’s hard to engage with anything else they have to say. sort of feels like they had some other axe to grind or clout chasing, as mentioned above.

I’m still really struggling with this news but I really appreciate some of the discussion taking place in here and in the accountability thread.

 

Yeah, starting off with, "Firstly, I think Pinegrove is a boring sounding band." is a bad look. Your opinion in that regard isn't relevant.

 

I don’t want this to turn into something where we aren’t putting them down. They are young and in a band that’s just gaining reputation. They probably don’t realize that people are putting weight into their words when they tweet something like that. I think it was very kind of them to respond to me, and I have no problem with how they feel.

 

Yeah, I get your sentiment, but it's a no from me. This is never the way to talk about this situation.

 

Yeah I don't mean to single them out. There's just this overwhelming attitude on Twitter from a lot of people in the scene that Pinegrove didn't deserve attention before the allegations and definitely shouldn't now. I just think people need to use a bit of common sense, especially if they are within a scene and have a different level of interaction with the people involved, before posting their hot takes. You can very easily see how someone simply shitting on the band's music in an attempt to be humorous or edgy can be mistaken for anger about Evan and his treatment of other people.

 

My bad i didn’t even mean it like that but now that i reread it, it came off as a Dickish thing to say. I love both bands’ music just to throw it out there.

 

Yeah, that Rew shit is just a personal attack. The thing that matters the absolute least in relation to accountability and justice, as in not at all, is how you feel about someones music/art. If that's the first thing you bring up then no, I don't value your opinion. There are plenty of people out there upset that aren't using this as an opportunity to, seemingly, attack a band because they were popular before and you didn't like their music.


I see this shit all the time even on this sight. "Well, I guess I was right to not listen to or like the music of SN/BN/Jank before these allegations." Like, there is literally no fucking connection there. It's just patting yourself on the back for something you and anyone else here never jad control over. It's conformation bias.

 

Intrepid and Darkness are so good.

 

Yes, totally agree it was a messy way of saying that. It was getting late and I was starting to fall asleep as I wrote that, but that is essentially my sentiment. Thanks.

 

my genuine confusion on why people are taking a hard hard stance against the band coming back is because of these paragraphs:

"Lavis and Hall first met in the summer of 2016. They had a brief, intimate relationship that, Lavis said, ended when Hall got back together with an ex-girlfriend. “The aftermath made me feel bad about myself,” Lavis said. “But I never felt that he was abusive towards me at all. If someone did have a negative experience, I want to validate that, but mine was consensual.

When the hurt of their relationship was still fresh, Lavis said she vented to Allen, who was her friend at the time. In the fall of 2017, Allen contacted Lavis to discuss Hall again. “She kind of made me feel worse about the situation,” said Lavis, who grew concerned when she saw a screenshot of Allen’s internal Punk Talks email circulating. “I asked Sheridan if she was referring to me [as a victim], because I had a strong feeling, and she said yes. I told her that I felt like I was misrepresented. She was apologetic. But it didn’t fix the situation.” (Allen confirmed to me that Lavis “was absolutely misrepresented in this email,” adding that she “misunderstood their interactions” and takes “full responsibility” for the error.)”


and


"Since late 2017, both the band and the alleged victim have focused on coming to a private resolution via a trusted mediator. Until that resolution was reached, Hall said, “there was really no way for us to offer any clarification” to their fans. It was the alleged victim’s request that Pinegrove take a year off from touring and that Hall enter therapy. “We wanted to honor that,” Hall said. “She recognized that we’ve honored it, and has since approved our plan to release an album and play some shows later on this year.” (Their mediator confirmed this.)"

 

From my understanding Allen is not a professional, but appeared to act as one? From what I have read it seems that her actions have been manipulative and would violate TONS of HIPAA violations if her status were that of an actual professional. A BS in social work does not equal a trained therapist.

 

I just think it’s weird that the victim has given her blessing for the band to continue (if we are to believe the mediator’s confirmation in the article, and that’s really all we have to go off of at the moment) but other people not even involved get to say “THATS NOT ENOUGH FIRE THEM INTO THE SUN.”

 

I think we are all adults and capable of making the decision to listen/support the band further if we want. I am not too comfortable with the entire "you don't know what I know" issue as some blind faith as to not listen to what you want to.

It's good to be educated, it's good to have reservations, and it's good to question.

 

Honestly.

I need someone in plain words to explain to me why that isn't enough.

 

I need someone in plain words to explain to me exactly what Evan did in the first place

 

This is a really solid take on this and would love to hear the counter argument

 

Read the article. Evan was involved with a girl who had a boyfriend and pressured her to have sex with him. She reinstated, he kept pursuing. The article makes it seem like nothing physical took place

 

The counter argument is that people don’t really believe or trust the validity of the second bolded statement, that she signed on to this plan. Say she did sign on to this plan. How much of it was because of guilt, or feeling like it wasn’t her place to take this band down? I’m not saying I necessarily think it’s the case, but I’m skeptical, especially given some other things I’ve seen online

 

The victim was reached for comment but declined right, so she knew the article was happening. Do you think they would’ve run the article if she was against it? Maybe she just didn’t say anything because she wants to move on and forget it. By speculating about what she REALLY feels are we even allowing her to do that?

 

This continues to be my main concern. I worry that overthinking this is further hurting the people we claim to care about in these situations.

 

Very well said

 

I would say that most of the people who are taking a hard stance have reason to feel this way. Sure, there are definitely some people clout chasing. But a lot of them at least know who the victim is and are friends with them or have friends that are friends with them. They believe or at least suspect that what the article says doesn’t completely line up with what she actually wants

For instance, releasing an album and playing some shows is very different than having this long apology piece that serves to announce an album that’s coming out two days later, which is really not long enough for a lot of people’s thoughts to be settled

Also, there are spots in the article where it seems as though he still doesn’t understand why what he did was wrong, and that’s worrisome to me