Accountability in Music • Page 161

I don't really want to get into it, but I think people need to remember that human beings are fallible and holding every musician to a Christ-like standard will disappoint you every time. Mitski had a really great quote about how she's always waiting for people to start to hate her because she isn't a clean and perfect person, and that's what this reminds me of.

 

I think the mountain goats thing is yes, creepy and weird, but not "problematic" as such. JD did something wrong here, with the power imbalance, and also it's irresponsible, I think, of a dude in his 50s to unload very charged and heavy emotional content on someone who has half the life experience he does and is themselves unstable.
I think the main problem here is a difficulty transitioning from parasocial relationship to a normal relationship. IMO, from my own successful experience with doing that, turning a parasocial relationship into an actual friendship should be done extremely carefully and extremely gradually with an abundance of boundaries.

The jarring transition from fan/idol to extreme intimacy is very tempting when two people with similar traumatic experiences meet, because the reflex is that you want to share with that person who understands, you have an opportunity not to be alone. But as seen here, it's extremely unhealthy.
That's not to say it's impossible to go from parasociality to close friendship, it happens all the time, but it takes years.
My friend rose a really interesting point : if you wouldn't share it with a complete stranger, don't share it to a fan/an artist, even if you know you've been through similar things because of the music.

re: the queer thing, it's important to note because young queer people particularly trans people are often considered "inspiring" and the kind of, source of their enlightenment of understanding queer struggle by older cishet people, because those young queer fans will share what the music meant to them re: their relationship to queerness and suddenly the cishet person feels involved. So they become this strange "object" or "symbol".

 

Pretty much agree with all of this. Given the music he writes and his openness about his struggles and traumas, every time he plays a show he has 50 fans approaching him afterwards telling him the specific abuse and traumas he helped them survive. While definitely inappropriate given the power dynamic, it is unsurprising he would seek emotional support from the people he feels can understand him once they reach out privately.

And it seemed from the Tumblr post that once he was made aware of the boundaries he was crossing that he became apologetic and ceased the contact? It’s hard to tell from the way it’s written. The updates seemed to be fans saying they got similar weird vibes in conversations with him but no accusations of outright abuse. Definitely weird interactions that the fans are justifiably troubled by.

It just feels off to, after an in-person apology, post screenshots of a guy’s mental breakdowns and hashtag him as a predator because of them, especially when you tweet beforehand that you’re going to ruin a band on your tumblr and post afterwards that no fan should spend one second trying to help/hold John accountable bc he should be shamed into ruin. Because I’m sure a lot of young fans experiencing trauma would like to make sure he’s held accountable so that they can feel safe enjoying and finding solace in his music again. Idk.

 

I don’t like to mention it much because I have no interest in outing the person, but I have had a relationship like this with a band memeber I admired. We were able to rebuild our friendship into something much more open and appropriate and I felt right being a part of their private accountability/therapy for mental health problems.

Obviously there are so many different ways to go about this but when mental illness is involved and when that is the main focus of the call out, I just feel very uncomfortable saying “this person should be ostracized.” Maybe I’m misreading it, I don’t want to judge this person unfairly.

 

It sounds like an older man who is mentally unstable and probably opens his heart and dumps it all over anyone who is willing to listen, which is very unhealthy and he should be under close watch by friends and/or doctors.

 

But could this not also apply to the fans who come up to him and unload their trauma (often, I’d assume, without his explicit consent)?

 

Sure, I guess so, but I think it's similar to celebrities in general that if you choose to be famous for acting, being an athlete, or musician, you have to expect that you'll get people taking pictures, wanting to talk, etc...

Fair or not, that's just how it is.

 

while this is true and I agree it's often overstepping boundaries, ultimately it's his job as the older adult and as the person in power to set boundaries and not to lean back into it.

 

*shrug* I can only agree to an extent with either of the above, then it gets to a point where I start to feel it devolves into infantilization and over-simplification of incredibly complex interpersonal situations.

I don’t really have the time atm to further delve into my thoughts, bc they’re generally pretty hard to articulate for me as-is, and even more so in situations like this where things are expected/required to be delicately phrased. Maybe later I can expend the energy to do so.

 

its absolutely his responsibility but if his mental state is in a bad place its not hard to see why that responsibility would be too much for him to recognize. we do need to be careful as we start talking about the mental health issues at play here and recognize some things are extremely hard, if not impossible, to see when you're in that mental state.

 

I know I overshare with people all the time, online and in person, and it's a reflection of how mentally unwell I am in general.

 

I’m 100% the same way. And I quickly form connections with people I share with and who share with me. John is in the wrong here but that doesn’t mean I can’t empathize with him. I don’t see him as a monster. I feel bad for him and want him to be better

 

It's super unclear if John initiated contact or the fans did
It's tough because he definitely writes lyrics you relate to but also there is a power struggle

 

Same for him, me, and you!

 

The communications are super unclear in general just because of how selective the screenshots are. Makes Darnielle look a hundred times creepier than he might look if all context wasn’t omitted. Or there might not be much more context to give.

 

It’s a power struggle I hope he recognizes from here on out. But like I said I can empathize with him. When you’re that low and yearning for any kind of connection with other people when working through your trauma you kind of become blinded to the context and implications of those connections. I’ll be real I’ve been through this before with someone, the power dynamics weren’t nearly as extreme as they are here but my relationship with my girlfriend started in a way that could be seen as emotionally dependent. Had I been in a better mental state I would’ve realized neither of us were in the right place to have that kind of friendship and eventual relationship but at that moment we both just needed someone to connect to. Thankfully it’s worked out for us but we’ve been through a lot as a couple and have had to deal with a lot of stuff together. Point is, I get it, I get that need to connect without thinking about consequences

 

I need to see John's response and the steps he's taking in the future before I make any conclusive judgement. The Mountain Goats are my favorite band and I've been intensely devoted for the past seven years to everything he's made. But I can't support him if this continues/more predatory information comes to light. Regardless, I'm taking a break from his music (and a lot of music) to try and find healthier stuff for me at this time.

I don't think he's an abusive terrible shitlord of a person, but that doesn't make this hurt less or feel less surprising. It's true I held him up on a pedestal, and I will never hold anyone to the same standards again, but at the same time no one has made such intensely relatable music for me, specifically as an abuse survivor. It's music I needed when I was 16 and 17 years old. Even if I quit the Mountain Goats, I'm intensely grateful for what that provided for me.

 

I just really cannot sanction this person dumping it all on the internet. again, perhaps I'm missing something, but it's kind of awful to see someone's mental health put out there like that and framing it as power abuse.

It's inappropriate yes, but I can't help but feel it would have been better to work on it in private or to cut him out of their life.

Posting it and acting like he abused you just feels wrong and this feels like some early 2000s Perez Hilton paparazzi type shit. Just kind of slimy in my opinion. The one paragraph said something about seeing violence in his eyes. What?

Not even a mountain goats fan, I know two of their songs and that's just from looking up LJG and against me videos

 

Wait, that was about Darnielle?

 

The tumblr post and that twitter thread are about different people

 

No that was H*t S*g*r

 

Sorry y'all, clearly I missed a post here and there. Deleting my other posts!

 

I'm sorry guys i'm really not in the loop enough about this, is this actually about a wrestler? Or is it a musician?? Do we know who it's about?? It's awful.

 

I honestly hadn't heard of him until today and I guess I didn't miss out on much. Is he actually well known?