Accountability in Music • Page 154

Hey did something happen with the With Confidence situation that made them acceptable again? I remember multiple members being involved but the amount of press they've been getting with no one talking about that makes me feel like I missed something.

What I remember is the guitarist was a creep, so they kicked him out and everyone was like "yeah these guys are doing the right thing". Then a bunch of allegations against the singer came out and they basically just went "hey I'm sorry we're gonna go away" but now they're back.

 

I can’t really find a lot on it now but if I remember correctly I think the singer was given kind of a free pass because the girl who came forward said she had lied about her age and wasn’t completely honest in her accusation, which basically mirrored the statement he put out about not knowing she was underage. I could be completely off base so please tell me if I am, but that’s the last I remember hearing/seeing of it.

 

This is an old story but one that I’m not sure made it to the wider press as the band were nowhere near as big back then as they are now. Charges were eventually dropped but there seems no doubting the incident took place. Bring Me The... head of the person that did this. / Music News // Drowned In Sound

 

Pretty sure that vehemently disgusting song on Suicide Season was written about that incident.

"And after everything you put me through, I should have fucking pissed on you"

 

remember when they were on the taste of chaos tour with thursday and geoff talked about how depressing it was to be following a band calling their fans f*ggots and c*nts on stage, plus how rooms were clearing out before thursday came on. i really think that tour was a huge turning point for thursday which eventually led to them breaking up

 

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/5...r-wounds-after-sexual-harassment-allegations/

Shame it didn't kill them. Sucks these guys are still around and STILL everything wrong with 2010s pop-punk.

 

nah I haven't clicked into this either. the fucking neck of the predator-ass frontman and his enablers. They don't deserve their career or fucking anything.

 

p

I'm baffled by the reasoning behind this article running the way it's written at all.

The article is focused only on sexual harassment and revenge porn allegations, the first of which broke a year and a half ago and the band's current tour and album are barely mentioned. Here's one of the more meme-worthy quotes:

Well, this quote is being made to a reporter / press release recycler nearly 17,800 KM / 15,000 miles away, a place where all people know of the members of Moose Blood is what they've seen and heard in recordings and streaming online. Also, if you were "these types of people" and you so freely admitted to these things in direct quotes to a reporter you'd be incriminating yourself. I'd hardly expect you to want to be quoted saying that to a reporter than you'd have your publicist write it up for your media kit.

The article is based on a phone interview between the paper's writer in Australia (a regular writer, as you can see from the link from their name: Josh Leeson's Profile | Newcastle Herald ) and the band in the UK. Obviously the band (and likely their management) was involved and would approve of the article as written. The article reads like an sensitively written update on the story from the band's point of view, but how do they think this will encourage interest in their music or their tour? I started to ask this because I think it's rare to find an article written like this so strongly from the accused's point of view.

The emphasis on their statements on the allegations may be to try to test for a social media reaction ahead of upcoming show in the town this publication is based, Newcastle, Australia, and other Australian tour dates, announced back in March (http://musicfeeds.com.au/news/moose-blood-announce-2018-australian-tour ) and show that fans of the music scene aren't going to object to their tour, and if some do to hopefully turn the irritation some feel into something that may help ticket sales or streaming plays.

I don't think it will encourage much more interest their fans may already have in spending money on them , but the story may be intended to make a distinction they want fans to make between something they are trying to put behind them and their imminent set of Australian dates. I also wonder if ticket sales and streaming plays are not where they want them to be right now and if they think that running a mildly provocative article like this may create a buzz that will help.

I am certain a lot of people will want to say that society and the media in general are overwhelmingly sympathetic to the accused in cases like this but it's still really unusual to see the mainstream media -- even self-described tabloids like "The Newcastle Herald" -- report an article so strongly from the point of view the accused wants to present. I don't recall seeing many stories written like this even from what I've read from UK and Australian tabloids. Even in tabloids, usually articles on people accused of sexual harassment tell the story from some third party's point of view like some advocate or expert or governmental official (and usually then from prosecutors), or (for bands) their management, like BMTH's management did for Oli Sikes in another article linked above.

I'm also sure that someone will want to say that stories like this will be popular with the band's following, especially guys, but I think if that were true we'd see more stories at least repeated like this, and it's less likely now than it ever has been for them to be effective. That may be why the article so strongly emphasizes that the allegations nearly "killed" the band, because I think they didn't -- and maybe they shouldn't have broken up the band, though I believe at the very least more people should know about this and it should have some influence on their audience and how they continue to seen as a band. The allegations seemed to be handled like a brief PR glitch and outside of two flurries of statements around the time of the two allegations nothing more came of it from that as far as public statements from anyone with the band is concerned. They are obviously trying to sound sympathetic and sensitive (like the guys I'm sure they'd like us to think they are) in the wake of #metoo, etc, but even still an article so strongly emphasizing their point of view is unusual for me to read.

I think there's definately a place for stories to be written that directly quote people accused of offenses like this. I'm sure most people here won't want to read stories like that but if we don't have them then we will see more reporting like we did after the Front Porch Step (FPS) story broke, with near silence from the accused, few words from his label or management, and most of the words published coming from lesser connected people like Kevin Lyman with his numerous statements on the matter.

Jake McElfresh was silent for most of 2015 besides a couple of rambling equivocations on Facebook. Aside from that, I think it's notable that Jake (and his label, Pure Noise Records, and anyone who otherwise would speak for Jake) essentially had Kevin Lyman (and by association his staff) do Jake's talking and PR for him for most of 2015. No wonder Jake and his label -- and nearly everyone else in the industry -- were silent until a single cathartic performance July 1st, 2015 when FPS played Nashville Warped and broke the internet. Like with Spotify, R. Kelly, and xxx, Kevin Lyman didn't make everyone happy in the end but at least looked like he was doing something significant, he hurt none of his business partners, he took a fall to help everyone he cared about avoid suing anyone they cared about, and gave most people and the press watching the chance to see what they wanted to see.

And after a brief flurry of coverage of these issues and FPS a few months before and a lot right after FPS played Nashville in 2015, in spite of all we've heard from #metoo and #timesup and how we've all gotten "woke" since Trump was elected, the quality of stories coming out in the music press don't seem to me to be better than they were in the days of so called "tumblr justice" so I think trying to come up with ideas for how to present them should be appreciated.

The way the music press overall handled FPS is obviously not the best way to handle these stories. I think it would have taken more effort than most reporters wanted to make to pry some statement from Jake until the fall of 2015, and surely they would have gotten a backlash from readers and online critics, but I also think that quoting Jake could have helped show how much in the wrong he and others in the music scene were who supported him -- and would show the same for Moose Blood, if there were reporters besides the one in this article who would want to ask questions as well -- more critically, of course.

Of course, that probably was another reason why Jake was never quoted directly at all until an article ran in Billboard one month after his single seemingly disastrous Nashville appearance, when Warped Tour was nearly over, after Pure Noise made one last attempt at moving his merchandise branded with their label, and by when Jake had plans for the independent release of his music. Kind of like how Moose Blood has this story come out half a world away from where they are from, nearly two years since the story first surfaced but just before a string of dates near where this story was published? Either way, there's lots of reasons to critique the coverage, but for more reasons than one might realize at first glance.

Anyway if you are looking for one simple question I'm asking here, here it is: Are other stories running that are written similarly about Moose Blood on their Australian tour, and how are fans and the music scene responding to those stories and their tour there? If people don't want to discuss that, fine, but I think it's relavant to ask, I think these are questions are what the band, their management, and the press are asking as well.

 

All I'm saying is I'm not surprised an australian outlet would be making an article like this, not that it's not also a problem everywhere else, but after the extremely violent pushback against Camp Cope & co's denouncing of the hardcore misogyny of their scene, I have to say that yeah... it makes sense. It's a power move. It's a fear move. this band is using the recently-highlighted culture of extreme sexism in the music scene in Australia to squash women and minorities even harder. "Nobody believes you. nobody's on your side. stay in your place. they will only listen to Us, if you get in our way you will be blamed by Us and by Everyone Else. You mean nothing. We have the upper hand."

 

Those guys have had a reputation for being assholes for as long as can remember, but I hadn’t seen any of those screenshots before. Very gross.

 

Holy crap that Google Doc

 

Sorry what Google Doc?

 

https://t.co/k8UGuT3htx?amp=1

 

The Orwells are from my city (Chicago) and I’ve heard they are just general assholes. There was a thread a while back in a Chicago music group I am in all about how bad they are and the shitty things they have done.

 

The Orwells - Wikipedia

When misconduct makes its way into a long paragraph on Wikipedia, it's pretty well known already.

All it may take is one verifiable police report involving assaulting a fan and there should be enough for a conscientious promoter or two to drop them, and that makes it easier for others, etc.

They are on Atlantic Records, about as big of a label as there is. Not that they might be any more likely to take action than an indie label, but they should be easier to contact and maybe (maybe) more concerned about their image.

Not saying that would be easy, but that's how things can get started.

Feel free to post a link if you can find it!

Thanks!

Subreddit link from Brooklyn Vegan article that bedwettingcosmo linked to: The Orwells deny sexual misconduct allegations, cancel Chicago show

 

The Orwells deny sexual misconduct allegations, cancel Chicago show

 

Yikes, that’s a hell of a statement. “Everyone should feel comfortable talking about abuse, but if you believe everything you read online you’re a sucker! Also, did we mention that everyone should totally feel comfortable talking about abuse? But don’t do it anonymously or on social media. Contact us directly if we’ve abused you, please.”

 

That last part, like... my god.

 

Jesus fucking christ what a horrendous group of people

 

The statement from The Orwells above was apparently sent to at least a few different Indie music news sites:

https://pitchfork.com/news/the-orwells-issue-statement-about-sexual-abuse-allegations/amp

That makes the way the statement ends all the more strange:

"No victim of abuse should be hesitant to make their voice heard and if someone does feel that we’ve hurt them, we encourage them to contact us properly and privately (not via social media or anonymously), as to respect their identity."

Leaving aside the absurdity of somebody who felt victimized contacting them directly, how do they think they are going to be contacted "properly and privately"? They must mean messaging them somehow because they must realize their email address, phone numbers or physical address are not commonly known but they apparently all of that left out of their statement --- sent it appears yesterday to at least a few different indie music news sites --- just how they want victims to contact them.

I don't expect what they're saying to make much sense but it helps validate my feeling that a little more coverage to the words of people who act out like this it helps show how they are in the wrong and may help us understand how they think and rationalize their behavior and maybe help us do more about it.

 

So basically the statement is “please tell us who you are so we can bully you into silence, possibly by suing you and threatening to ruin your life”

 

too on the nose

 

I got a press release that Dr. Luke’s legal team drafted this new statement against Kesha. It’s super gross and basically said, once again, that she made it up to get out of a record deal.