Maynard James Keenan Denies Rape Allegation • Page 2

Clearly. We should believe victims and honor due process. I’m just saying- Louis CK’s constant jokes about jacking off in front of women and Lacey’s lyrics in “Me vs. Maradona vs. Elvis” shed light on how creepy predators often out themselves before allegations come out.

 

every single picture I see of this guy he looks like a skeevy creeper. That combined with stupid shitty lyrics this guy is trash. Tool isn't even a good band.

 

yeah you must be a man.

 

I mean, yes. I am. I'm just saying, the example of pieces used in comedy bits, or even some lyrical references such as Me vs Maradona etc definitely feel predatory in hindsight. The puscifer examples are a little off in that regard because some exist in a concept and others, when examined in context, are about sex from male and female points of view but nothing that throws a predator flag in the way even old Ted nugent songs did. I just think that even APC or Tool lyrics would offer more when examined than puscifer lyrics would

 

Weren't there multiple allegations, though?

 

Yes, there's even a reddit thread about him doing this dating back a few years:

Crazy Rockstar Groupie Stories Surface: Lars Has a Small Package, Maynard Is Kinky and More

Sexual Assault Allegations against Maynard James Keenan of Tool and A Perfect Circle • r/indieheads

 

So we're just going to say that all artists that sing, write, or joke about sexual content are rapists? Does that extend to females too?

I have no idea what happened with Maynard and this girl or any other person, but there is zero correlation between sexual lyrics and illegal sexual acts. Sex is not a crime, talking about sex does not make someone a creep. Those lyrics aren't even forceful or aggressive, Vagina is obviously about going down on a woman.

 

So these accusations are tied back to an email address that belongs to a 23yo male? I'm still really confused...

 

I also have to point out, that one of those linked articles is about his proclivities with groupies, which he's always been widely open about, but has nothing to do with assault.

It's been floated around for a long time even before his book which goes into much more detail about his sexual encounters on the road

 

Getting someone to go somewhere with you alone under an innocent guise and then taking out your dick with no invitation to do so by the other party causing them to flee doesn't have anything to do with assault?

 

Exactly. Again, there are MULTIPLE accusations NOT linked to that one guys email, and some of the other accusations are very serious stuff, not just "groupies"

 

Woman Who Accused Maynard James Keenan Of Rape: "I Will Testify If Need Be" | Theprp.com

Looks like this is starting to clear up. It appears that the accuser is real and not a hoax.

 

No shit

 

I'm more concerned about the Reznor allegation...so the initial Twitter accusation against MJK, also had a second account with the same email that made an accusation against Reznor? So they were assaulted by both men, once in 94 (TR) and again in 99 (MJK)?

And how does this all tie back to the email being traced to a 23yo male's dating profile?

 

If the accuser used a friends account it would explain the email being traced to that person. There are still some discrepancies due to the Reznor allegations but, in cases like this the whole truth comes out eventually.

 

I mean, that's still just a direct message from the twitter account. There's nobody putting their name out there even privately to speak to a news agency stating they are the real person behind the account. There's ways to protect your identity while still stepping outside of an anonymous twitter handle.

Here's a link with an image explaining it:

Basically there was two accounts created an hour apart from each other. First one that would eventually mention Reznor was created before the Maynard one. The Maynard account posted this account of rape, and then the Reznor one responded to it saying they were raped by Reznor. That was the only post. The Maynard one, the only known previous use of the e-mail attached to it was as a 23-year old male on a dating site. I heard reports that the same e-mail was used but I'm not sure of that.

I'm not saying that's impossible by any means, but that would mean a 36-year old woman used her 23-year old male friend's e-mail to make a huge accusation. Seems like something I would not want someone to do with my name attached.

 

Thanks for clearing it up!

Also, how weird does that Maynard solo set at the RAINN benefit in 1997 look now? Tori Amos has said she sees MJK like a brother, that performance and susbsequent donations looks bizarre now.

 

I agree with you that caution is still necessary here. It could still be a hoax and they are doubling down through the twitter account.

 

I've been thinking about how to respond to this, because I think this is a problem I see over and over a lot in these discussions- not just on this website, but in general. So this isn't directed AT you, but your post did make me think.

A lot of people, men in particular, claim that their refusal to take anonymous accusations seriously is because they don't want "real" victims to face consequences. I've also seen this stance a lot in regards to victims who choose to tell their stories but not go to court. (You can see the court statistics on the RAINN page as well to see why victims wouldn't want to pursue a case in our broken legal system.)

What I'd like everyone who claims to be worried about the impact on "real" victims to do is simple: think and act. What are you doing in your life to help victims of assault and abuse? Are you donating money to charities? Are you making yourself available as a compassionate resource? Are you volunteering in your community? Are you at least posting on social media about statistics? Are you using your voice and platform to amplify the stories of "real" victims? ...Or are you coming into every discussion ready to discredit stories because they don't satisfy your subjective personal bias? If the only time you care about "real" victims is to use them as a straw man to not believe stories you read, you probably don't care about them very much at all.

Everyone should think critically about cases like this. As we are the court of public opinion, we don't have to wait for a judge and jury. We are allowed to form our opinions based on statistics, research, and previous experience. When the statistics overwhelmingly say that women are raped and abused, I will lean towards their side every time. Even if I'm proven wrong once or twice (in keeping with statistics!), that doesn't change the big picture. We have a responsibility to the community of survivors to advocate for them. To change the culture, we have to start by believing them in the first place. That's why you'll see me all over trying to educate, over and over. "Real" victims are hurt by a system that keeps them oppressed- not by a tiny percentage of fake reports.

 

You're completely right. And for whatever it's worth, this isn't the only time I care about victims, though that's somewhat immaterial. You're right.

This instance has the potential of weaponizing the metoo movement in a way that's directly against victims. If trolls can anonymously go after people, and enough people can see that it was just a troll, then it calls into question accusations that come from the internet/social media accounts. That isn't the way this should be; that's actually using something that's extremely good (the internet's ability to protect victims from having to out themselves to tell their stories and sound the alarm on abusers), and turns it around on victims. The tiny percentage of false reports isn't anything; but we've seen how damaging purposeful, coordinated lies online can be. Hell, I'm not convinced that if this is the case, the same people posting the lies aren't the same people unveiling them. The name of the game is casting doubt on victims; the account being 'caught' does it, no matter what.

Again - I don't know a single Tool/A Perfect Circle song, and outside of having high school friends who liked them in the late 90s, I don't even know who they are. And honestly, the 'consensual' stuff i've read about the guy with his fans is, frankly, heinous in my opinion. But we've all seen the damage trolls have done to this country in the age of Trump/the alt-right, and this definitely smelled like that over the weekend as I was reading about the random white dude account making multiple twitter accounts and claims.

But you're 100% right. We need to make this easier for victims and harder for abusers, in every way possible. And I didn't mean to contradict that at all.

 

For sure, and please, remember, I wasn't directing that solely at you, but more of a general plural "YOU", to the same people I see in these threads all the time. I agree that it could be true that this story is false, the same way any story could be, but the chances are low.

I will say that the culture is again the problem with one possible false story somehow being able to call into question and entire movement built on hundreds of thousands of women's stories. Letting one story in a million sow seeds of doubt is letting trolls win just as much as anything else, in my opinion.

I'm glad we're discussing it- talking about it is important to making that culture shift happen!

 

Many thanks for pointing that out; hella relevant.

 

Tool sucks and so does Meynard. He's a rapist.