Accountability in Music • Page 48

i just hope you learn when it's just important to sit and listen and learn as opposed to speak

last i'll say here

 

I am fun as fuck at parties and also think that what you're saying is stupid

 

17 year olds aren’t fun at parties. It’s just a fact.

 

When I was 17 I used to get too high before parties and talk to no one

 

For what it’s worth that was a stupid comment for me to make. High school parties are pretty bottom of the barrel and I am indeed not fun at them.

 

I said a ton of really dumb shit when I was 17, getting critiqued by people and called out, and actually having shit explained to me eventually sunk in, even if my dumb brain was only defensive and wanted to win an argument more than listen and hear a new perspective. So I feel that. People can change, but being challenged and engaging with them is a huge part of the process.

 

I understand why some people can’t/don’t want to expend their energy explaining these issues to people who are being defensive and combative, but the most I ever learned was from both getting called out and from those calling me out taking the time to tell me why they did so. I don’t expect everyone to be on board with that, but I feel like it’s always worth a shot. If they truly show no interest in learning, yeah, fuck them, but I try to maintain that it’s better to explain and potentially change someone’s mind than immediately deem them a hopeless cause.

 

i still do this at 29 tbh

 

Also, we only really needed one person to react to what he said. There's no reason for 8-9 people to make sanctimonious posts when one 17 year old kid says something gross. Are we having a competition about who can be the most moral person with the best call-outs in the thread? Or are we trying to bring everyone up to a better standard of human interaction?

Gonna also agree that taking the time to communicate and educate people is better. Those of you who act like you never had shitty views, and never needed to be redirected by someone older/more experienced... are just too ashamed to admit it.

 

I'll turn that kid into a socialist in 3 weeks

 

Calling people upset about really gross posts sanctimonious and virtue signaling is messed up.

I’ve responded to this exact poster multiple times over the years. How many times am I expected to “educate” before it’s ok for me to be annoyed?

 

In that same vein though, how many times can a person really tangibly boost their ego by coming up with aggressively witty clapbacks whenever a person speaks out of line?

Eventually both get old. I feel like, if you don't have anything productive to say, let someone else with more patience that day explain where the dude went wrong. Just being harsh right back is like spanking a child. It's not necessarily going to lead to progress so much as it's just going to cause them to recoil and resent you.

 

It's sanctimonious because people are egotistical and pompous and even competitive about the way they put people down. It has nothing to do with the positive discussion at hand at that point.

 

Me at 17 was very dumb and I learned so much from online forums because I didn't have exposure to other viewpoints before that. I thought I was cool and open-minded cause I hated George Bush and upped the punx and all that, but I was so ignorant and needed to be told. At the same time, I guess because I remember being 17 it's hard for me to be like super harsh to others. I don't think it's fair for me to be hostile when I used to say similar things and was that person. But I also don't believe in policing other ppls feelings and telling marginalized people they're handling their upset wrong, and I don't think anyone is being that hostile. So I guess I should just stay out of it lol. I just hope that even if someone doesn't get it right now they soak things up like I did, and I appreciate everyone for speaking up in the way that works and is comfortable for them.

Edit: okay I used a lot of words to say nothing lol I just want sunshine and rainbows I guess!!!

 

So it's been a week now and they haven't made a statement...

 

I heard they were off but attempting to book headlining dates + find support for some shows there.

 

Bro I've been extremely open about the views I used to have and several people in this thread who knew back then know too, I'm not afraid or ashamed to admit shit, I had people come at me for dumb shit and I turned out fine I don't care if I come off as too mean toward sexist rhetoric but keep tone policing all you want

 

Yeah it’s all about the ego that people are sick of pop punk bros abusing women and defending them online. That’s it.

This tone policing shit is another conversation that’s been had a billion times. Coming at those that deal with this daily with this kinda rhetoric is bullshit.

 

Well you can approach it however you want to approach it. I just don't really see a lot of successful instances of, fighting negative views with aggressive sarcasm.

 

Six years ago I told @Wharf Rat he was dumb for not listening to electronic music and we've been friends ever since so I beg to differ sry

 

I believe the aggressive sarcasm comes from it being explained multiple times to someone. At least to some degree

 

Equating calling out a bad post online with hitting a child sure was a wild bridge though.

 

Anyway, I had this conversation with Ryan in the old Brand New thread about Neck Deep as well. My post about "what are you doing" was because this is the second time, at least, I've seen this exact thing play out. There's a long "not sarcastic" conversation here. As he, himself, said ... he's known as the guy that supports that band on this website. I think it's fair to get to a spot of being sarcastic about said support of people that we don't have good answers about their past/history and discussion of women, ableism, etc. There is a long history with that band, and the support of said band, that I think warrants the backlash. It's not the first time this has happened.

Anyway, more reading on why I think the tone policing argument is not helpful:

No, We Won't Calm Down – Tone Policing Is Just Another Way to Protect Privilege - Everyday Feminism
Tone argument
Tone Policing 101: What It Is, Why It's Problematic, Why You Shouldn't Do It

And, a little related in regard to those that get so exasperated they turn to snark/vulgarity:

The Necessity of Political Vulgarity | Current Affairs

Yet to dismiss vulgarity as a tool for fighting the powerful, to say that being mean is “ridiculous,” is to deny history, and to obscure a long and noble tradition of malicious political japery. In fact, “being mean” not only affords unique pleasures to the speaker or writer, but is a crucial rhetorical weapon of the politically excluded.

Vulgarity has always been employed in revolutionary rhetoric, perhaps most notably in the propaganda leading up to Jacobin’s own beloved French Revolution. Forget snark, the pamphleteers of France were all too happy to satirize and smear the upper class with the utmost malice. Clergy, royals, and anyone else in power were slandered and depicted visually in all manner of crass and farcical political cartoons.

 

Idk I had some stupid views at 17 and older, for sure. I know that for me, people being blunt with me helped for things to sink in, as a “reality check” or w/e. Like I’m not gonna be too harsh on a high schooler, but they’re old enough to not need kidgloves. Over time - ideally - you learn to move past reactionary defensiveness, and learn to focus on listening/reading

 

i completely agree here