Accountability in Entertainment

Place to discuss how we, as consumers, deal with the actions of the entertainers to whom we give our money. How do you deal with situations like Woody Allen or Polanski or Cosby?

My Father, Woody Allen, and the Danger of Questions Unasked (Guest Column)

 

Idk exactly where to put this thread/if it needs to go in a different forum. It could also benefit from a different name, but I'm blanking on what to call it.
@Jason Tate any suggestions?

 

Personally, I struggle generally when it comes to how to react to problematic artists in music/sports/entertainment as a whole. In some instances, like Kanye West's tweets prior to TLOP, the problematic language of the artists does not make me enjoy his previous work any less; however, it did take me longer to get into TLOP due to all of the events that surrounded it. As an educator, I often times referenced and praised Kanye in my class throughout the year. After the events of TLOP, I held a discussion with my class similar to the one I'm hoping to spur here in regards to what happens when a person you look up to says or does something offensive or harmful. It's also important to discuss the idea that, while an artist might have "always been that way", people change and their viewpoints hopefully grow over time. Simply because you didn't have any problems with the language before doesn't mean that you need to remain silent now. I was not on AP at the time of the events and found myself in a situation where I observed and listened to the voices of a wide variety of people from different backgrounds, culturally and socially. I'm sure I would've jumped immediately to a strong viewpoint on one side of the fence, but thankfully I wasn't able to talk and had some time to sit and think about the situation. I still don't think I've spoken about it on the site. I did not spend any money on TLOP and will not see Ye on tour. His words did not take away from his art, but at the moment I'm not really too comfortable with giving him my money.

For people like Woody Allen or Polanski, I understand how influential and brilliant their works of entertainment are and have watched a few of their films, but can't really fathom how someone like Allen can garner the critical acclaim and movie stars he does film after film. Can their films still be respected or viewed in a lens that isn't marred by their actions?

This isn't me attempting to compare Ye to Polanski or anything, just a general post about how to deal with the actions of entertainers.

Overall, to continue the conversations stemmed from AP, people have different lines and react in different ways depending on the specifics of the event. I don't think that there's any wrong way to react to these types of events aside from attempting to silence people who are processing or reacting to the situation in a way that you don't agree with.

 

subbing. Might add something later, but this is something I am very conflicted on. It's easy for me to boycott an artist like Chris Brown whose work I have no attachment to or desire to listen to. But then I struggle to boycott directors like Polanski or Allen who have not only made undeniable masterpieces but films I am attached to on a personal level. I discovered both directors before knowledge of their crimes/misdoings and still have done little research beyond surface knowledge. And then again on the other side I am quick to dismiss a film maker/actor based on a racist/sexist/homophobic remark, again remarks typically made by people working on projects I have no interest in. I have a certain level of guilt enjoying the works of these directors whose style and projects I enjoy and I'm not sure what to do or how to deal with it.

 

@OhTheWater

I have been unable to come up with a better name as well. We thought about the idea of a sub-forum off Politics for like accountability/activism but I never thought of something that I think works best as a sub-forum. I actually think this is a good idea, wouldn't mind seeing one of these in music as well - as a place to discuss these topics in their own place and that people can engage if the want. Especially if we look at it from a discussion standpoint more than a "calling out" standpoint, because there's a lot of good talks to have / come from things like this I think.

Or, at least, it gets people thinking.

 

Is It Okay To Enjoy The Art Of (Allegedly) Awful People?

 

When the allegations against Louie CK came out around the middle of last season I definitely was conflicted. I finished the season, but it left a really bad taste in my mouth. The thought of enjoying this art that possibly was the product of someone who was sexually harassing female comedians. Esp someone so important to comedy right now.

 

@Cameron Was it ever confirmed that CK was the person those allegations were aimed at?

 

Jen said she wasn't talking about him, but there was also the Gawker story which named him

 

I don't think so, and I think the person who made them said they were referring to someone else. I could definitely be wrong though, but when I looked into there wasn't alot of information available. There might be now.

This is a tough thing, I'm in the same boat as a lot of you. I guess for me a good example is Better Off. I listened to their new album a lot but since everything came out about that situation I haven't been able to bring myself to listen to it. I'd like to think all the people I look up to that make art are great people, but unfortunately that can't be a reality.

 

The CK thing in particular was so confusing for me. He was, at the time, probably my favorite artist making film or television. I hold some of those episodes of Louie up with any other in the medium. When the allegations started, it put a sour taste in my mouth, but most of all I was kind've sickened by the idea that a lot people knew what was happening and pretty much said "yeah, everyone knows that!" While they were never proven and may not even have been accurate in terms of him being the alleged assaulter, it did cause me to side eye him and it affected my enjoyment of future episodes to the point of not finishing the seasons.
I'm still not sure where I stand, especially if Jen explicitly said it wasn't him. I recently started Horace and Pete due to critical acclaim and absolutely love it. He truly is making some magnificent work which I will consume and analyze, but I don't really feel comfortable giving him my money until these things are cleared up.

Overall, that's kind've how I stand. If an artist is problematic or there are allegations that are not proven to be true, I will still consume their art without giving them money. I think it's important to speak about the allegations, regardless of the person. If the allegations are proven to be true, I feel like I can still view the art and analyze it (without paying) but make it a point to educate other people as to the horrible things that occurred.

 

I dunno... I have a hard time condemning Louie when Jen specifically said she wasn't referring to him, and no one else has come out accusing him of anything. One Gawker article isn't enough for me to stop supporting someone who's art I enjoy more than just about everything else out there. Just not enough transparency for me in regards to the Louie situation. Anyone can say anything about anyone else and suddenly we're just going to stop supporting this artist (financially or otherwise)?

 

Nah I mean I get that, like I said it's confusing to me while at the same time the reaction to the news and the fact that there were multiple sources of people saying that this was common knowledge just turned me off. I think it's a slippery slope when you say "one article" or asking for transparency

 

For me I find it hard to control. Like some ppl separate without a second thought and it's never been like that for me. I loved Chris Brown before he showed his true colors but now I can't stand it when a song of his comes on even if it's one I used to love. It's def easy for me to ignore the work of artists like polanski and Allen cause I knew they were creeps therefore I never checked out their work and I don't really feel deprived or anything. There's tons of films out there and I'm cool with checking out ones not made by known rapists.

With artists who've said horrible things but not committed physical acts of violence it's more blurry for me. I think cause it seems easier for those things to be learned from depending on context, but if the artist continuously sucks about it and never tries to make genuine amends I sour on them. Like even if I didn't think Purpose sucked I don't think I could ever listen to bieber like that or support his music financially and feel okay about it.

Not to say I don't like problematic artists. Christina has a nasty history of fetishization and cultural appropriation and I will condemn her for it endlessly. Probably almost everyone I listen to has done or said something ignorant or bad publicly. It's when ppl act like we should get over it or move on or downplay things cause they're fans that annoys me. If you still enjoy them fine, but don't whine when ppl bring up sucky things they've done and not amended. And I don't count the passing of time as amending either. Like I need a real acknowledgement.

 

cultural appropriation in pop music is a tough one for me as well, and the worst is someone doesn't do it I almost want to give them a gold medal, congrats on not being racist here's a cookie

and yeah if I cut off everyone in my life who said something disgusting I'd know very few people, same with celebs

 

I feel like a decade ago or longer it wasn't being talked about as much so lots of ppl didn't see anything wrong with it. Well not that it wasn't being talked about but there were less avenues for poc to express themselves and be heard. So when ppl are still doing it it's like really??? Honestly I think a lot of ppl know what cultural appropriation is and just don't think it's a problem. Like there's no way Little Mix doesn't know the flak they've gotten. It seems like at a point ppl just don't care.

 

I just watched the Open Secret doc and one of the ppl interviewed mentioned how victims don't have much power when it comes to awful celebs and accountability, but viewers have the power to decide what they spend their money on and it really made an impression on me. It's ridic how these celebs are allowed to keep doing what they're doing and face no real consequences and ppl just keep putting money in their pockets

 

I am having a hard time with Drake working with Gucci Mane considering how he threw a woman out of a moving car
Gucci Mane Arrested For Pushing A Woman Out Of A Moving Vehicle

 

Drake is friends with a human trafficker so I don't think he has any standards for how the human beings around him conduct themselves.

 

In his interview with New York Magazine, Louis C.K. for the first time directly addressed the Gawker rumors about his sexual harassment, though he did so by explicitly refusing to address them. I have a hell of a lot of pause for anything he's involved with, and his response didn't really help.

Louis C.K. on the Right to Be Offensive, Why White Guys Should Stop Whining, and Bored Masturbation

 

That's certainly an odd response

 

Especially because his work is deeply personal

 

I don't know if I'll be able to watch Birth of a Nation

Nate Parker’s Rape Accuser Committed Suicide in 2012, Her Brother Speaks Out (EXCLUSIVE)

 

Jesus