Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson, December 15, 2017) Movie • Page 299

TFA visual dictionary has some Knights of Ren stuff, if your curious. Also this Knights of Ren

Edit: this video is interesting as well

 

Found both of these comments on Reddit to be interesting

“Another detail I noticed earlier in the movie is Kylo deliberately gets his co-pilots killed after they fire on Leia by staying near the capital ships too long.”

“I just noticed that when Rey comes at Snoke with Kylo's lightsaber and Snoke flings her away, Kylo's saber flies out of Rey's hands, lands at Kylo's feet, and spins around until it comes to a stop. Kylo sees this and then looks up at Snoke. This is what gave Kylo the idea to spin the saber that's sitting next to Snoke to deliver the death blow.”

 

Man, this movie was fucking weird. Not because of all this stuff with Luke, which I actually enjoyed, but more from a plotting and structuring angle.

Like this is a minor point, but when Kylo Ren kills Snoke, why rob the audience of the surprise? Why show the lightsaber slowly turning, how does that add anything? That’s the directorial equivalent of airballing a free throw. Felt like the movie was full of weird little blips like that.

I havent read this thread, so I’m sure it’s all been discussed ad nauseum, just wanted to add my two cents. Not a bad movie. But definitely a strange one, and not in a good way.

 

It’s a misdirect. They make it obvious that Kylo is going to kill Snoke because they know the audience thinks it means he’ll team with Rey, but the real turn is when he reveals he’s not turning against the First Order, but staging a coup.

 

Considering I love the writing of Luke in this movie I wouldve adored this scene, but I can see why it was cut considering the the blacklash. Definitely wouldve added to that.

Itll be interesting to see it again and see how they cut around that scene. I cant remember what made her go in the darkside cave thing in the movie. Also thats saying him going on the falcon is what made him reconnect to the Force but in the movie didnt Luke go in the falcon earlier with Leias message the reason he decided to train her?

it will be interesting to see how they piece together in the deleted scenes.

 

thats how I took it too, it kind of lulled us into a false sense of he will turn and join rey, but him killing snoke and assuming power was the real twist.

 

But the audience would still assume Ren will team with Rey once they see he killed Snoke, still allowing the audience to be surprised when that doesn’t happen. I fail to see how those two things are related.

 

Yea... I think his timeline is a bit off.

 

To me, the scene shows how powerful/arrogant Snoke is. We have to see the saber turning to know Snoke is in fact reading Kylo's thoughts.

On a personal note, I enjoyed the build up to the moment Snoke gets it. If the saber had just ignited and I didn't know it was coming, sure maybe it would have still worked. I love the scene how it is though.

 

Because the longer the audience believes that Kylo is turning allegiances and teaming with Rey, the more firmly they’ll believe it, however briefly. It allows them to see what they believe is coming and build anticipation and excitement for it, playing the death and ensuing battle triumphantly. It’s a deliberate and successful (for most people) choice to play the audience that way. If movies were nonstop twists they wouldn’t work because audiences wouldn’t have time to invest in anything. By giving the audience all that setup for Snoke’s death, they invest in what it means and when Kylo’s real motivations are revealed, it hits harder than if the audience didn’t get that chance to see and invest in what was happening than if it just happened suddenly, played more for shock than narrative.

 

I think it makes the audience's reaction the same as Rey's, when she very emotionally says "Kylo don't do this". I felt the same way, like "ugh noo come onnn man". I think the scene worked well and was written/shot perfectly.

 

I guess we’ll agree to disagree on this, but I don’t buy that rationale at all. Feel like you could easily have both things (the surprise and the gut-wrenching turn).

 

Yep. Building that tension is the entire point. And shows exactly why Snoke doesn't know it's coming, and from who. A "surprise" would make no sense in that situation.

 

It has to do with Snoke's words. He is describing what Kylo is doing, but misinterpreting his thoughts. Its for the audience to understand how Kylo is tricking Snoke and how Snoke's arrogance in his power is defeating him.

 

I liked the scene a lot because it shows Ren was good enough to outsmart someone who is way more powerful.

 

Having the scene be:

A static shot of Rey kneeling with Kylo standing over her while Snoke gives his little speech...and then suddenly Snoke is cut in half...

would not be good storytelling.

Of course the audience would be surprised, because they weren’t given crucial visual information to understand what just happened in that scene. RJ would have then been required to provide an in-movie explanation as to what went down. Because something as crucial as “how the fuck did Snoke just die” is a thing the audience really should know. So, what, Kylo turns to a confused Rey (and the audience) and says “I used the force to swivel, and then switch on, your lightsaber.”

Showing the two brief cuts (of his hands and then of the moving saber) built tension (oh shit, is he going to do this?!? Is Snoke gonna figure it out and turn on Kylo?) and explains the action for the audience.

This is filmmaking 101 here.

 

Fuck you Sheev!

 

Oh my god, don’t be deliberately dense. There are obviously ways to do this.

I regret posting in this thread. Everyone carry on.

 

I’m in dire need of a second viewing. I’m going to try to catch an IMAX screening this weekend.

 

Ok, now that they are gone I can quit the deliberately dense persona I adopted.

Gets them every time.

 

Connecting the Star Wars animated series to The Last Jedi

Going up against the forms of Count Dooku and Darth Sidious (astrally projected to Moriband from Coruscant using Sith magic), Yoda discovers that fighting this evil will never win the day. The only key to victory (not in the Clone Wars, but in all wars, as he says) is in fact the name of the episode itself: sacrifice.

Brute force doesn't work for the Jedi. When they become soldiers, they make mistakes. Yoda made them so during the Clone Wars, and his discovery here is what makes him almost a completely different character when we meet him in The Empire Strikes Back. "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense ... never for attack," he says. Nowhere in that famous line does he add "... and sometimes the Jedi act as Generals and wage war across the cosmos."

Would part of us have wanted Luke to roll in on Crait and lay waste to every gorilla walker simultaneously, before murdering every single First Order officer there? Probably, but Luke's way is so much more elegant ... and more in line with Yoda's teachings. Finally free from his own turn in Jedi hubris, Luke makes his own sacrifice, and it isn't a violent one. Instead, he uses all of the energy he has to create the grandest act of myth-making imaginable, and it is his sacrifice that provides the lone spark in the darkness. As he says, "The Rebellion is reborn today ... the war is just beginning ... and I will not be the last Jedi."

Good stuff here.