Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson, December 15, 2017) Movie • Page 262

I was actually going to post something like this a few days ago but couldn’t make sound not weird. Well put. This is exactly how I feel about wanting people to be as happy about it as I am since I know they care about the franchise just as much as me.

Hit me on so many different levels. Emotionally. Intellectually, visually, musically, creatively, and just simply entertained me to it’s fullest. Can’t wait to thank Rian Johnson one day in person.

 

Poe’s story arc was all about him developing into a leader tho, and that’s why we get the scene at the end where he leads them to escape and not Leia

 

Which is why I said:
"So why fall back on that? It's like he learnt nothing."

and that's a moment from TLJ, where I'm saying I don't completely agree with his character...

 

It’s in that “mighty skywalker blood” they are impulsive but luke has learned not to act on his impulses

 

Two of the movie’s biggest themes: failure and heroes vs leaders. This is beaten over the head through the entire movie.

 

He seemingly learnt that in Original Trilogy though.

 

Well, yes, that's the obvious chosen theme for the film. Doesn't mean you have to completely agree with the decision.

 

Not agreeing with the decision and ignoring that central theme are two different things. You missed Poe’s entire arc and the central key to all your questions about Luke. He failed. He was not the man or teacher or master he thought he was. He was imperfect and full of hubris. All of this is said in the movie. Multiple times by multiple characters.

 

He did but that’s the point he’s still not perfect. The legend of luke skywalker made him believe he couldn’t make a mistake or he was a failure so when he has a impulse about ben that he wasn’t going to act on he still felt shame and that’s what he went into hiding

 

Ignoring it would be pretending it never happened; disagreeing with it is disapproving of the said chosen theme, and in this instance, Luke's arc.

 

Your questions about the foundation make it seem like you don’t understand it/are ignoring it.

 

I understand the view, just don't agree with the impulse. Just felt over-the-top and kind of 180s his OT development.

But then again, you've got Luke Skywalker intentionally hiding away as the galaxy descends into chaos. Not too sure on how many ways Rian could've spun it. Luke must have obviously had to feel strong shame to not help and I guess that has 40 years of heroic baggage to weigh down. Still enjoyed the film (initially gave it an 8/10), this was all nitpicking for me.

 

The fan deification of Luke is exactly the hubris and arrogance and ignorance that led to the fall of the Republic that Luke talks about in the film. The idea that he can do no wrong or have zero dark thoughts as some pure being is nonsensical.

 

After seeing it again, I think there’s totally a connection between Rose, her stunner, and the weapons used on the Fathiers. Finn makes a point to ask where she got that and she doesn’t answer. Then she’s reminded of her homeworld and tells the story of the First Order enslaving and weapons testing on them as we see the riders and trainers use similar looking tools as her stunner on the fathiers. I think the implication is those were also used on her/her sister and she took it when she escaped. This also informs and strengthens her connection to the fathiers where she sees her history in their treatment which is why she wants to free them just as her and Paige were freed. I think this also explains more of why the animal cruelty theme seemed odd because it’s more about her parallels with the creatures and not their treatment in a vacuum. I’m sure there’s stuff in the visual dictionary that contradicts this but it all clicked to me.

 

I've only seen it once and I can still remember things that happened so much more vividly than I usually can with movies. Like, the movie surprised me so much that I honestly just forgot about the little things I didn't like about it. I still don't think I'm confident enough in saying I like it more than anything from the original trilogy (yet), but I never would have guessed that people would absolutely hate it lol

 

If this was happening right after ROTJ, Id defintiely agree and you bring up solid points. He did believe Anakin could be turned so why not Ben? But you have to take into account the 20+ years and the stuff we already knew about Luke. We knew Ben turned. We knew the Academy failed. I think the way Rian did it and his decisions to basically tear down the lore and show the old Jedi being wrong and actually present the Force in the best way possible was everything I wanted.

Idk how you feel about that aspect with the Force and that 1st lesson, but I think there was no other way to get to that point without Luke trying to teach the old Jedi ways and failing. The character may have taken a hit for you, but I think it makes Luke one of the few force users that understand what the force truly is and not just follow one side of the religion that both fail.

Question. Were you satisfied with him on Crait/his death?

 

Damn dude. Ive seen it three times and missed all of that. Good work. Definitely makes sense. Thank you for pointing this out. I still would say it could've been handled better overall, but definitely at least connects it to her character more.

 

Lots of dodger/s in this thread.

 

Paige Tico
A talented pilot and gunner, Paige Tico operates the ventral guns on the Resistance bomber Cobalt Hammer. She fled the Otomok system and joined the Resistance with her younger sister Rose. Paige loves animals, particularly fathiers, and dreams of seeing one during some quiet period when the galaxy is at peace.
link

 

About to sit down for round 2.

What I keep thinking about is Luke and his “change” from the OT and the expectation JK set up in TFA.

I keep relating it in my head to Superman and how Zack snyder changed that character dramatically and it really upset fans.
It’s how I feel about wolverine (until Logan)...stop trying to make him Cyclops.

I understand the subversion, but I’m still processing it. And that is prob what RJ wanted...but I do sympathisize with those that feel negatively towards the decision.

See how I feel in 3 hours.

 

Second viewing was way more enjoyable. Still not into most of the Finn/Rose stuff. Leia telling 3PO to wipe that nervous look off his face is so great. Made me exactly feel to Leia in 4,5,6.

 

That’s exactly what I loved about Luke in this film. If I wanted to see what a stale, unchanging hero looks and sounds and feels like over the course of decades, I’d watch the prequels. There’s a reason those characters bore the hell out of me.

Luke dies with an understanding that he will not be the last Jedi and I was left with the sense that he finally got it right and, even if he didn’t, there is peace with imperfection and hope that the next generation will be better.

 

One of the things I liked about the prequels, is that it did begin to expose the flaws with the Jedi. Showing them not be this "all perfect, benevolent deities", so to speak. So in a way, it's nice for this film to supplement that. Just felt like Luke's shame went OTT. Would he not consult his sister or Han first? I get that just feeds the notion of him feeling shame, but it just seemed too illogical in the first place. Yoda felt shame too ("failed, I have") from a similar situation that actually went bad... and he then went to live as a [noble] casteaway, only to hide from the Empire. This approach could've been done similar for Luke, rather than intentionally tainting his image as a failed hero. But then again, TFA eventually just bothered me by being a carbon-copy, so I don't know if Luke copying Yoda is what I'd want lol.

Felt the force projection scene was a bit over-the-top. Just feels like completely overpowering Luke. Aren't dark-side force users supposed to be more powerful? Is possible Snoke did this? It just feels cheap to introduce such OTT powers. Beautiful cinematography (with the floating cape) but it just made me wonder how did he die from that?

In all honesty, I don't know how to feel on a lot of things. But I'm not sure I care enough to bother for a second viewing (was gonna watch it tomorrow again with my Dad but as we've both seen it, we decided to opt for Jumanji, lol).

Just overall, the sequels have been pretty underwhelming for me. I grew up on the prequels, so I obviously never shared that revolt feeling towards them and I now have nostalgia protecting further judgement (still protest my love for ep 3). I'm more curious to read George Lucas' story treatment for the sequels (Mark Hamill said it was completely different). Hope the script gets leaked or adapted into a novel eventually.

 

People complaining about character changes over decades in narrative timelines should just not waste their time with new Star Wars movies. If what has been done is the only way, then why even bother going?

 

I feel like chewies character really hasn’t developed over 6 movies