Brand New Band • Page 788

why are so many people taking age of consent so fucking literally?

 

There should be a broader discussion about consent in relation to the power dynamics at play and not infantilizing women who do consent, but it's also worth noting that the age of consent is different across the country. There are absolutely stories and cases of band members across history abusing underage women, but I think it's worth discussing those instances specifically and not speaking broadly. Tying the "wrong doing" or not specifically to an age and legal culpability I think's the wrong way to look at this.

 

See Jason's post. Worded better than I possibly could. Basically, painting things broadly service the perpetrators, not the actual victims.

 

i mean, jason's post basically says what i think. that's why i hate bringing up age of consent in this scenario because this isn't a legal issue in my eyes

 

It’s not giving them power if they just say “Due to the allegations against Jesse Lacey, SF was removed from consideration for EOTY accolades.” Giving them power would be saying, for example, “SF would have been Album of the Year if not for what happened.” I agree that they should be called out in this way, because it doesn’t erase/hide what Jesse did by just ignoring the album entirely.

 

The way I see it, this is pointless, because I do think you were painting all these bands together and completely ignoring several factors by lumping them all together. I don't see how the point you were trying to convey is what Jason said at all, since I feel it's basically what I was trying to say but better worded it. But I'm glad that you think that way and understand that analyzing specifically and not broadly is better than what you were doing before. Age of consent is indeed important, and like Jason said, you can't infantilize women who do consent and are capable to. A freaking 14/15 years old simply can't in any state whatsoever in the US, and we acknowledging that is important, specifically in Lacey's case. Hell, most of the states not even a 16 year old could, or a 17:

Ages of consent in the United States - Wikipedia

Nah man, I was sort of torn before but now... things changed when this stuff broke. In retrospect, whatever made part of Brand New's "mystic", especially if you take away your own personal bias, feelings and memories from the old songs, you can't expect people to listen to that record and feel the same. It's broken. Revealed fake, if it makes any sense. So they aren't even "in consideration for EOTY accolades" because they don't deserve it. What serves them is those articles with the women that stepped forward denouncing him and then an eventual article when they call it a day. I feel like they don't deserve even that. Getting mentioned and "not being considered because" would be a badge of honor for the diehards that can't possibly know better, and I think most of us here get that.

 

I have no idea what this means. I literally said they shouldn’t be in consideration for EOTY accolades, but they should also be called out for it. Just pretending the album never happened does more harm than good, it should be brought up and linked to what Jesse did as frequently as possible. Don’t know how keeping the spotlight shined on them for this is a “badge of honor” for anyone, either. They don’t get to just slink away into the darkness for a while until it all “blows over.”

 

i was saying that at young ages, even if the woman wants it, it's up to the artists to realize that they have a pull over these young women and should be the ones to back away and not initiate sexual contact. i think in no way a 25 year old band member should ever get physical with a fan that is still learning about emotional and sexual experiences. i think there should be no real cutoff, it's situational, in cases i think even hooking up with a 19 year old could be considered potentially abusive. but this is all on the men, not the women. as i've posted, there are plenty of stories of women thinking they were doing what they wanted and realized that they were being manipulated and abused. these men should not even approach this situation.

 

Pricilla Presley was 14 when she started dating Elvis, for starters.
David Bowie slept with teenage girls.
Jimmy Page dated/kidnapped a 14 year old.
Paul McCartney heavily implies they slept with underage girls (But John Lennon beat women so this is a drop in the bucket I
guess)

I'm not going to bother googling the rest of 70s rock royalty's transgressions with minors, but all of this is... common knowledge? Also, you're acting like a petulant child. Stop being rude to people.

 

That's not how the real world works. We have laws for that. We have laws for things not be how cwhit or straylightrunner think. That's why it's important the understanding that whatever your morals are, not only what Lacey did was morally wrong, it was against the law. He committed a crime and got away with it. So far, at least. And this focus on "the men", not "the women" seems like the very infantilization of women. A broader discussion about better consenting age laws is definitely welcome, but if we focus on that instead of what Lacey did wrong, aren't you really - even if inconsciously - justifying what Lacey did by deflecting what is the real issue here? By saying that the world should work accordingly to what cwhit thinks (no sarcasm here, it's just me trying to prove to you that we are going in circles because you are insisting and fixating on what your morals are, and I'm not sure that's the discussion that we should be having here) we are going away to discuss what this means in the real world, and why it was wrong and well, a crime. One that he won't answer legally for because too much time has passed, unfortunately.

 

there is nothing that would put jesse lacey in jail for abuse, or so many of the other abusive men in entertainment, and most of the time that would end up being a bigger drain on the victims than the abusers. so yes, i don't care what the law says, because the law has failed us time and time again.

 

I'm done with whataboutism. I will stick with what Jason said and talk about Lacey. This is pointless.

 

We should. Because that's the reason we are running in circles.

 

those guys should all be in jail with jesse lacey in an ideal world

 

Yeah... you keep saying that word, but I'm not convinced you know what "whataboutism" means.

 

i don't think anyone is using other people to make jesse looking better, we're using other people to show that they are as vile as jesse is

there is no deflection here

 

I don't think jesse being in jail would help anyone, but some of these old timers... uhhhhh

 

was using it in a non-literal sense. basically i think all the gross abusers should have a similar fate

 

strongly disagree, but I also don't wanna sound like i'm defending anyone here, so let's just agree that the guy you were quoting is full of it, and has no clue what they're talking about.

 

Still no SciFi limited vinyl shipped yet, eh?

 

Never Shipping.

 

imagine caring about vinyl still

 

Hello, the limited vinyl orders are expected to ship very soon, according to band management. Unfortunately, we still have not been given an exact date that we will receive them. We do not currently have any date confirmation or tracking number for when we will receive them.
Band/label management have most recently told us that they will be shipping to us around Thanksgiving, so we are hoping to receive the orders this week.
Please note this is their estimate, so we currently cannot guarantee any time frame.


We are able to offer you a refund if you would like, please let us know.

We will ship your order as soon as we receive it here. We are so sorry for the delay, and appreciate your patience.

 

if you're not taking the refund, enjoy your L

 

Sooo the LA Times thinks BN has a shot at a Grammy nom

Previewing the key artists, races and storylines for Tuesday's Grammy nominations