Brand New - Science Fiction (August 17, 2017) [ARCHIVED] Album • Page 1719

The initial comment that I responded to was someone saying 'we need to address the root cause of why Jesse did what he did.' That comment seemed to suggest the root cause was 'Jesse is an entertainer people idolize.'

I disagree, and think the root cause is Jesse being a piece of shit. The 'whataboutism' you're referring to came from me saying WHY I believe that, from my experiences with other Jesse Lacey's in other arenas of life.

I think these are all conversations that are important, because as other people have said, whether we listen to the music still is totally unimportant Not everyone on this board has encounters with celebrities; everyone DOES have encounters with predators. And personally, I think that it's an important thing to say out loud that these things can, and do, happen constantly, everywhere. The problem isn't about any one industry - it's about people being pieces of shit. I could be wrong. But I think that's an important thing to say.

 

I don't see how that's what me or Ashland is saying. In fact I agree with you. What I'm saying isn't excludent of what you are saying. And I don't understand what is going on here.

 

again and again youve both been bringing up predators in other positions of power instead of examining, REALLY examining, the position jesse was in. okay, predators exist everywhere. this predator existed in a band. that played a role. i dont know why we need to point out other cases that dont apply here.

 

The case is a jackass in a position of power/influence.

 

that position of power/influence is a band. band members have access to fans who idolize them. the victims were fans who idolized them. they said so themselves. listen to the victims.

 

Tbh, it is a little weird to see people praising Affleck and Justice League in the JL thread while condemning Lacey in this thread. I don't think Lacey should be given leniency, I think everyone's reactions are more than appropriate. But I also think that other people, like Affleck, and their associated projects should be under more scrutiny by members in these forums and people in general, and I'm surprised to not see more Chorus members being vocal about it.

 

I get that, and I don’t think you’re wrong, I’m just not sure what you’re getting at here.

 

justice league is a horrible film but as far as I know what affleck did wasn't even close to the level of what lacey did, right?

fuck casey affleck tho that slimy piece of shit.

 

Hey everybody, here's the issue: Jesse Lacey isn't not in a band. Jesse Lacey was never just a cool guy at a party. Jesse Lacey specifically used his position in a band to coerce and groom underage women. Hypothetical situations don't do anything. They don't help the victim, in fact they actually ignore what the victim said. They don't move the conversation about abuse of power in the entertainment industry forward.

No one here thinks that this only happens with famous people. No one here is stupid enough to think that. You don't need to change the subject to tell us that. WE ARE AWARE. But when these issues keep popping up in a community that we are a part of, the music community, we're going to look at it in the context of the music industry. Just like we look at Harvey Weinstein through the context of the film industry.

Context matters. Without context we are literally talking in circles uselessly.

 

People are praising Justice League?

 

why did you reply to me saying it was simply an asshole in a position of power? the position matters. how that position is used matters. it seems you and others are trying to deflect or ignore that.

 

Heh maybe not praising it like it's a masterpiece, but just discussing what people like and dislike about it, etc.

 

My abuser wasn't in a band, but he was in a position of power. I was one of the first saying here that we should have a literal take down of how Brand New profited and accepted the image of good guys that their fans painted on them. Lacey abused and used that on his lyrics, so what he did is one of the most abhorrent things I've ever seen a sexual predator do. But there are others like him in all walks of life. Not sure how addressing that could possibly sound like whataboutism to you, because that's not what whataboutism even is to begin with.

 

Well without being in a band/having the position of power his assholish ways would’ve been way less effective, that much is true.

 

Oh yeah, it's not like he preyed on a minor or anything, but a form of sexual assault or harassment in general is still unacceptable behavior

 

i was being facetious because everyone's using whataboutism in the wrong way. everyone knows predators exist everywhere. i dont see what thats bringing to the conversation about jesse.

 

he only had access to the victims because they were fans of the band. that's a huge, huge piece of the issue that needs to be talked about. predators taking advantage of fans.

 

And I don't see how what me or Ashland said could possibly be seen as something that would deny that. I'm the first one to say that an absolute takedown of how Lacey operated is needed so those that actually come with whataboutisms nonsense like "what about Beatles and Elvis" can't even try to use that argument, because it literally doesn't even makes sense.

 

there are levels to this kind of thing, and people react differently to those levels. it's unacceptable sure, but it's easier to believe affleck when he says he's learned from it and will try to grow. than ykno whatever lacey said.

idk I'm not trying to defend affleck from what he did, but these are complicated things that people have every right to react to as they see fit.

 

people also keep using boycott in the wrong way

 

Remember when this thread wasn’t about linguistic? lol

 

Actually dude, I'm sorry. But you were the one using whataboutism in the wrong way, facetious or not. Not sure how can't you see that saying "well but what about the Beatles in the 60s" isn't whataboutism. It's whataboutism 101 right there. Completely pointless discussion though, so eh, congrats?

 

haha I complained about this and then used it earlier in this page. it's so hard to not use when everyone else is using it like that. it annoys me.

 

Yep.

 

its not "what about the beatles?" its "the beatles did this too, many bands did, which shows power dynamics in the industry are at play"