Brand New - Science Fiction (August 17, 2017) [ARCHIVED] Album • Page 1717

i don't care about the legal ramifications of what band members do. plenty of people get in legal trouble for things that they shouldn't be and plenty of people don't get sent to prison for things they should. the law doesn't matters, the social implications are far more important to me.

 

the victims were fans of the band so this completely totally 100% false

 

Are you REALLY saying that in your mind sexually abusing a child = emotional abuse within consensual relationships?

I don't think that's what you're saying, because I've seen enough to you to know that's not the sort of opinion you would hold. But it definitely sounds like that's what you're saying.

 

Yeah, it's kind of dumb to say Jesse Lacey being in one of the biggest bands of that generation had nothing to do with it. Sure, he might have tried the same shit if he wasn't famous. But the fact that he was famous made it much easier.

Jesse from Brand New is a hell of a lot different than Jesse the cool dude.

Like, power structure AND age matter people.

 

If Jesse didn't have a band, he could still prey on 15 year olds. And it would be still just as abusive and harmful.

Jesse's actions aren't wrong because he's in a famous band; Jesse's actions are wrong because they're child abuse.

 

yeah she literally says that it's because she idolized the band in her statement

 

we should not put extra weight on any sort of abuse. abuse is abuse.

i think band members should not coerce their fans in any way for sexual/abusive means. i think the fact that these girls were younger made them more likely to be coerced by jesse. they wanted to do these things at first because they idolized him but as they grew and understood more experiences they realized that they were manipulated. that's why jesse targeted them, i don't think he straight up went in and was like "ooooh i want some underage pics!!!"

 

you're setting up a strawman. no ones saying jesse's actions are only wrong because he's in a famous band. you're like, ignoring all my other posts. ive said it twice now and i guess i have to say it again. jesse's status in a band like brand new gave him access to these girls. his status in a band like brand new allowed him to get away with it for years and years and years. it protected him. it allowed him to do this. assuming he would've done this if he wasnt in a band is a pure hypothetical. the fact is that he was in a band and he did this and from where im standing its extremely obvious that his position in that band contributed to his actions and his ability to get away with it.

 

Lots of people are in famous bands. Those people have fans that idolize them. Being in a band with fans doesn't lead to child abuse.

Jesse Lacey's actions are not the natural result of being in a band; they're the natural result of being a predator who goes after children. He is not different than the other terrible, disgusting men who do the same, regardless of their profession or social status.

 

Well, then we simply disagree on a fundamental level on the difference between an adult and a child.

I appreciate the dialogue, I guess.

 

i cant believe its even a question whether or not him being in a band had anything to do with this

 

because not everyone has the ego driven behavior jesse does where he's looking for sexual and emotional reinforcement and the easiest targets are young women that idolize him.

what is the purpose of this? what are you trying to convince us? that other men are abusive? yes we know that

 

You both are correct. It played a part that he was famous, but it could happen without him being famous. Hell, it's not like Lacey was that famous anyway. Among the scene, yes. But world famous? Define famous. He was a grown ass man in a popular scene band grooming and preying upon underage kids. Could it happen without him being famous? Yes. Is it easier doing by being in a popular band? Yes. Is it fucked up in both cases? Yes. Is it fucked up that he did it and cultivated a image of a depressed reclusive guy that didn't get in touch with the fans but maybe those that thought that had a chance simply weren't young enough? Yes, it's gross. Is it gross that he literally used this on his lyrics and it's a running theme? That's the most damning betrayal that he could possibly do with people that adored him and Brand New. Also, thinking about how fucking haunting it probably is to his victims makes me want to punch Lacey's teeth out.

At least, some are actually waking up to this:

 

when a victim literally says it happened because she idolized jesse as an artist and people are saying him being in a band had nothing to do with it, we've lost the plot.

 

Jesse Lacey's actions were not the result of being in a band. It was much easier for Jesse Lacey to carry out those actions because he is in a huge band.

 

seriously this is all anyone has been saying

 

I disagree that it's hypothetical. The reason laws have been passed have been that people do this in every circumstance, situation, and context.

That Jesse used his platform to prey on children is, to me, the issue. What that platform specifically is (being in a band, being a nice uncle, being the cool guy at the party, etc), is, in my mind, immaterial. Him being a band dude gave him the platform, but that's far from the only (or even ideal - as a pastor, I'm very, VERY aware that my line of work is far worse in these issues than any other) platform to do what he did.

There's no reason to keep arguing though. We disagree, and it is what it is. I appreciate the conversation.

 

I don't think that's what people are saying here and some are being pretty obtuse about it. What Ashland is saying that it could happen with or without him being in a band. The fact that he was in a band and that band was popular and they idolized him obviously made it easier, and even more damning. Not sure how what me and Ashland are saying is opposed to what you are saying.

 

him using his platform is also the issue to me. the fact that you cant see the difference between a cool guy at a party and the lead singer of one of the most well known emo bands of their time is where im extremely confused.

 

but it happened with him being in a band, so we're talking about the issue of him using his status in a band to do this. ignoring that fact isn't helping anyone.

 

i'm willing to safely assume he didn't only target 15 year olds, i just think those are the ones that were coerced and manipulated more severely because of their age

 

It’s the literal definition of a hypothetical. You can’t disagree with that unless you want to change what the word means.

If that is indeed what you are arguing, I apologize and you may carry on.

 

But of course that is also part the issue and one of the biggest ones. How what Ashland said that it could happen even if he wasn't famous is that power can manifest in SEVERAL forms to an underage kid. It can be a teacher that is very cool and popular. It can be an uncle that was always nice to them. It can be a fucking asshole in a band like Lacey. The power dynamics are there, and of course that the fact that Lacey used them to profit and fuel his lyrics while trying to make their keep this shit quiet show the pattern of a sexual predator. Not sure what you two are even arguing here.

 

ive literally been saying its part of the issue and a big part of the issue. ashland has been saying it doesnt matter that he was in a band, for some reason.

 

People with 14, 15, 17 and several people coming forward saying that he was always flirtitious with people with similar ages show that you are wrong though. There was a pattern.