Pinegrove - Skylight (September 28, 2018) Album • Page 23

How does someone who understand gendered power so much to out themselves, but not understand that making a super vague statement that doesn’t even tie in his actions with his former relationship, is only gonna get a bunch of dudes to talk about “oh wow Evan did nothing wrong this is bs there are real victims out there blah blah blah too PC”?

Like talking about your loving relationship and then saying “oh well I missred the situation anywhere here’s 5 paragraphs of grandstanding”... this just seems self-indulgent and performative. I can’t see how anyone would feel better having seen that statement... other than the person who posted it.

Maybe someone who has a more intimate knowledge of this can correct me.

 

The negative fallout of cancelling shows to innocent people shouldn't be ignored.

Would it be acceptable to have them play an instrumental only set? I know Evan's vocals and lyrics are a huge draw but outside of getting a replacement vocal sub (not really great for this band) or doing instrumental only how could this work out better?

Should Evan be playing shows in-between therapy sessions at this time?

 

Not sure what to make of this situation, but I'm trying to commit these great points you've made here to memory.

 

Agreed. It was really hard to let go of Brand New and I couldn't escape those kinds of comments on any of my social media platforms... made the whole thing a really harrowing experience.

 

I've sincerely lost my understanding of what human behaviours are and aren't socially acceptable

 

Here's the newspost:

Pinegrove Frontman Apologizes for Sexual Coercion

 

I'm curious if you have any thoughts to share from this.

 

that post is already filling up with some ignorant statements. Curious as to what your thoughts are on this one? I try to stay away from the news posts, you get a different crowd sometimes.

 

Thought about this a lot in relation to the Spacey garbage too. All those people potentially out of work on House of Cards, plus most relevant to that post is Robin Wright, who was about to take center stage on the show finally. Louis C.K.’s producing work on shows like Better Things implicated these concerns as well.

 

I don't really have enough information to comment much on this entire situation. Something seems to be missing/is being left out and without knowing that ... I dunno what to say that's not pure speculation.

I dunno what he was doing on tour with fans, but I do know some of my good friends who are now married and have kids and are the cutest damn couple have met while being in bands, so the part about how that should never happen, I dunno, I'm not sure I agree. Being aware of a power dynamic goes a long way to understanding how it plays in a relationship, and we, as men, are almost always in a position of elevated power in this society.

 

Being aware of your position of power in a band in relation to your fans vs. wielding your power or fame as a way to garner sex and manipulate people are two very different things

 

I'm curious how the very premise of "sexual coercion" in this context doesn't absolutely infantilize women

 

To quote my friend on Twitter: “if you come away from reading an apology thinking there was nothing to apologize for, it was a bad apology.”

All I’m going to say is that he’s not worth supporting. I can’t give any more details than that so don’t ask

 

hi I just want to say that while I feel very uncomfortable chiming in for unrelated reasons, yr posts have all been spot on

 

actually I do want to say one thing, which is:

in academia, there's a rule barring relationships between faculty and students (including graduate students and their undergrad students), since there's an explicit, institutional power dynamic at play that confounds any consent that is or isn't given. obviously not every such relationship will involve manipulation, but the possibility is significant enough that it makes sense to have a blanket rule.

there's a similar power dynamic at play between artists and their fans, just a more subconscious one. it's not that female fans are starstruck by male musicians and unable to give consent or w/e, but there's a weird imbalance where one person is likely to be more motivated to consent than they would be otherwise, and it's hard to figure out how much of that is okay and how much of it isn't. it's always gonna be a trade-off between letting people speak for themselves (i.e. not patronizingly trying to reverse-engineer another person's motivations) and making sure no manipulation is happening, and it seems Evan has decided that he personally should err on the latter side of it.

edit: one approach might be "don't exclude all possibility of relationships with people who are subsets of your (overall) audience since they're capable of speaking for themselves, but proceed with extra caution initially due to power dynamic" which would obviously veto sleeping with people immediately after meeting them on tour

 

Knowing what I know which is more than what's public it is extremely extremely bizarre that he made a statement at all

 

In terms of it being so bad/off that his statement will easily be shot down, or in terms of it being a non-issue?

 

I'm just gonna stop following this until the victim either says something or something significant comes to light. I've been following this thread kind of obsessively the last few hours trying to make sense of it and there's no point.

Dudes in bands should just not be shitty and/or abusive imo. That would be tight

 

not trying to be a dick but in situations like this is it really necessary/wise to vaguely post about things that aren't public? feel like it just leads to more needless speculation

 

the former and also the victim not wanting him to make a statement

 

moreso just that sometimes you should heed the wishes of victims instead of trying to save face for yourself

 

Welp

 

Jesus Christ burn the whole scene down

 

Oh geez...

 

Yeah I read his statement as a selfish act to save face (most apologies are selfish anyway).