Brand New - Science Fiction (August 17, 2017) [ARCHIVED] Album • Page 1679

The content is bad too but the writing is worse.

 

Thanks, yeah, that's what I meant. Adding them in after a bunch of bands who have been recently outed in this definitely made it read like they were suddenly on the list too and that was SHOCKING to see.

 

I was just talking yesterday that when gamergators happened, while I stood with Anita Sarkeesian's right to critique the medium, I thought that she was too harsh with the whole medium. At first. Then I realized that she has a point. Probably because I had this experience before, I feel like the author wrote on that piece is harsh because the scene deserved to be harsh. The broad strokes she paints she still opens space to talk about local bands like Camp Cope that I never heard before but it does have lyrics that seem to subvert the genre in ways that mainstream female lead acts like Paramore and Eisley never did. I feel that most of the great bands that came from 2000s era matured past the easy muse thing. I honestly don't think that Lacey ever did in retrospect. His muse was his victims and mostly himself. Pieces like the one that she wrote aren't just needed, but a long time coming.

We should have realized this before. So I don't blame she calling the scene out on it.

 

Great take on the piece.

 

Eighteen Visions was also mentioned in that post. I have no idea who they are.

 

Metalcore band that's been around off and on for like 20 years. Don't know anything about them personally, but have opened at concerts I've been to, and they were often on Warped back in the day. My association with them is that I once showed at Warped stage to see a band I was super excited for (now don't even remember who), but instead Eighteen Visions was playing. Was so unimpressed and disappointed.

 

he doesn't?

 

it's 2017, who knows.

 

The scene deserves to be ripped apart but ripping on bands that haven't been cited as having serious allegations against them is not the way to do it

 

The only band that I do see mentioned there that doesn't have exactly an open story of abuse - although VERY problematic rumblings going that goes beyond their guitar player - is Fall Out Boy. I don't believe that men can be feminists and I don't see myself doing things good enough to be called an ally, but I can see how those first records of them have some very problematic lyrics that fit the bill that the author is calling out the scene for. With that said, at least lyrically, I feel like they've matured past that with their newest releases. Not really a big follower of FOB these days, but their content seem to have changed.

So yes, the scene had a problem with how they perceived lyrics like the ones that Lacey put out as "good guy not a jock" based on his persona instead of what he was saying. And while we don't have allegations like that for FOB, their lyrics had some pretty misogynistic stuff going in their past record. Not big on Save Rock And Roll but seems less "in your face" stuff than their previous stuff. I'm not an woman neither I'm apt to analyse their lyrics. Expect pieces like this to keep popping up discussing problematic lyrics, probably Brand New's catalogue included, going forward.

 

What 'serious allegations' are against any member of Weezer? They have some gross lyrics on Pinkerton, which is an album the band has distanced themselves from and Rivers has admitted was written from a dark and unhealthy place. He's been the first to say, 'these lyrics are atrocious and not what we want to be putting into the world.' And outside of that, I haven't heard or seen a single allegation of bad behavior by the band in 20 years. Also, are/we're they even a scene band? Since 2000 or so, they've been a radio rock band that mainly plays festivals, and they were never connected to Warped or pop punk at all. They're name dropped in the first paragraph, next to Brand New.

 

Wait, is there allegations against Weezer? Because I do agree that while some stuff there is kinda creepy, Rivers is an weird dude that doesn't seem harmful at all. Mentioning that Weezer has some lyrics that are misogynistic isn't an attack to the band and their fans. People need to learn to deal better with criticism. I didn't even noticed she mentioned Weezer to begin with.

 

I know about the "if you don't want to get naked and have sex, get out of the room right now" thing from Rivers interview, but while there's problematic power dynamics at play, it's not like band musicians can't have sex with more people at same time like any other person can. I mean, you can criticize the music of GOOD people that never acted like Lacey by its content. That's not about going McCarthy with people from the scene, it's about starting a dialogue.

 

You had just said the only band she mentioned that didn't have an open story of abuse was Fall Out Boy, and she mentioned Weezer, so I was just asking if there was something I missed. I didn't know why they were named as part of that group.

And yeah, I'm the one who mentioned Weezer has bad lyrics - I wasn't being defensive at all.

 

Uh, what?

 

I don't know either but I don't see how that wouldn't be a fair assessment. I mean, it's not like Weezer wasn't covered byt the same outlets that covered the "scene" bands and didn't have also some problematic lyrics. It's just a critique. She goes heavy against people that were accused of sexual abuse though, which seems completely reasonable to me. Brand New, With Confidence, that Getaway Plan manager, etc.

 

It's my personal belief that you can't take the protagonism from women. Women are feminists. Men are part of the problem, regardless how hard they try, they can be allies to the feminist cause at very best. Work their way to be better people. But I feel uncomfortable labelling me that since it's easy to label yourself something. One can admire, believe and contribuite to feminism that women are the protagonists of without being actually one, aka allies. It's just my personal opinion.

 

I'll just have to disagree. I don't know of a single band in any scene who has lyrics I don't think are out of line at some point or another. Lumping 'lyrics I don't want to sing' with 'child predators who groom their victims' seems like a brush that's being painted far too broadly.

I actually agree with the piece and am glad it was written. I just don't see much of a point in lumping bands who aren't predators in with bands who are. I don't think that's fair to either a band like Weezer, or to the situation with Brand New - in my opinion, comparing Jesse Lacey's/other bands raping of children to problematic lyrics trivializes just how heinous the actions of these predators was and is. They are not anywhere near the same ballpark as far as actions go, and suggesting otherwise, in my opinion, is a slap in the face to the victims.

 

The minute Anita Sarkeesian insulted an entire room of people for being excited about the new Doom, I immediately discounted her as a voice in the video game community. I honestly don't care if she makes good points here and there, insulting a room full of her peers for liking games that she doesn't and treating them like unintelligent brutes will never allow her to be credible talking about video games again. She brought that upon herself. It's one thing to support her right to critique the medium. It's another thing entirely to support her blatant disregard for other perspectives.

Which is also another reason why I hate Gamergate, as if there weren't already a bunch of reasons. By making threats against her, not only were they being morally repugnant, but they were counterproductive. They didn't want her in the scene, but those threats only made her more relevant.

 

shit. I always thought the lyric was "WE won't be 17 forever." What the fuck, dude?

 

First bolded part: But that's not exactly what that article is about, is it?

Second bolded part: That's a criticism that I feel it's fair to level against the article. With that said, like I've said previously, I can't blame her for it. We fucked up. We as "the scene" fucked up. Lacey is the asshole and we were played, but we should have seen it coming, we should have seen the warning signs. The article isn't there as a treatment on why Brand New lyrics are fucked up, it's an article about yes, the Brand New lyrics are fucked up and what Lacey did is insane levels of vile. But the whole scene had a problematic upbringing that like the author pointed out, other women had in fact spoke against and criticized in the past. Maybe we should LEARN from that instead of criticizing the piece because we don't want to see the bands lumped together with Brand New? I don't know, I don't think there's a right or easy answer for this.

 

Ok I get what you're saying, but, "Men don't deserve to use the term to congratulate themselves," is a very different statement from your original one without that context. I read, "Men can't be feminists," as implying no men want equality for women and a change in society or have a place in the movement and that was incredibly worrying. I guess it would be the same as the difference between a man saying, "I'm not a feminist," and that's the whole statement, or, "I can't call myself a feminist because I know I haven't done enough for the cause." Those sentences could not be more different.

 

I'm working and writing here at same time, but I've read what I've posted before and I don't see how that would be what would be come across to you. I do say that we can be allies at the very best. With that said, gotta bolt.

 

The specific betrayal of Brand New

zoe camp is a very good writer

 

Well that's not very helpful. I'm telling you that your post made me uncomfortable and your response is that I'm wrong for feeling that way? There's a massive difference in saying men can't be feminists and saying that men shouldn't use that word to describe themselves even if they support women and the cause to the absolute best of their abilities because they are still part of the problem. You're basically saying that men can be feminists by definition but not by title, which is very different than implying that they have no part in it.