The Story So Far - Proper Dose (September 21st, 2018) Album • Page 3

I was never talking about people being uncomfortable about the band, so that wasn't even relevant to me and I don't know why you quoted me to talk about it. That said, your anecdotal experience never seeing people uncomfortable about the band doesn't mean a thing, because I've seen people who are and honestly I myself am kind of weirded out by how much support the band still has. And for the record, Parker is the band, just like every other dude in the band is the band. You can't separate them, that's frankly absurd to say.

Anyway like I said, if what I and others say makes you uncomfortable, take a look in the mirror and ask yourself why that is. That's all I got, really.

 

So a grown man kicked a teenage girl (if I recall correctly) in the back, off of a stage, and your response is, "Eh, she deserved it." Nice.

 

No it's that she was okay with it, WHICH DOES NOT MAKE IT OKAY! Nor does generalizing the fact that impressionable girls like the band negate that something is bad!

You're fighting the good fight here but it's gonna fall on deaf ears. I appreciate your posts

 

You're using anecdotal evidence as well when you say you've seen people who are weirded out by the support the band has. Beyond your own thoughts and my own thoughts we are both going to use anecdotal evidence when it comes to assuming how many girls support or dislike the band. I just happen to listen to both sides equally instead of calling others out who may stick one side of girls over the other.

And I don't assume the girl isn't being honest when she gives her testimony like others in this thread.

 

Also, everybody go listen to Iron Chic because they are a pop punk band that is good and didn't build a fan base by tapping into awful male complexes

 

I'm not fighting anything, I'm just trying to keep awareness up about what happened. I used to be a fan of this band too. Don't think I've listened to them since everything went down though.

 

Sorry just meant it in the sense of the expression and not insinuating that you're being an instigator, just to clarify

 

I personally don't think her thinking it was okay makes a difference at all considering he didn't know that before he dropkicked her

 

I don't think it was okay that he did that no. But, I'm not going to hold a bad judgement call against the and for their whole career.

 

It shows that some girls, including her, can still enjoy this band which is my only point, but people continue to push it the other way.

 

I'm not trying to prove any point with anecdotal evidence, I'm saying that you can't use anecdotal evidence to prove anything because it's anecdotal, everyone has anecdotal evidence. To illustrate I also used anecdotal evidence supporting another side. So you see, all on your own you've grasped my point that anecdotal evidence is a fallacious tactic to use. Good.

Like I said though, that's all I got. If continuing to @ me makes you feel better, be my guest. I'm out.

 

You added nothing that I haven't already said.

 

guys that nobly defend this band and other shitty pop punk bands:

 

Hey look, it's another person who doesn't know what he is talking about because I never defended the band.

 

can every pop punk fan listen to latterman i think it'll make them better people

 

maybe instead of being so offended you could say "hey that was wrong and ya'll are right to think so but I choose to still listen this band and that's okay" instead of being argumentative and insinuating that people who identify as female liking the band makes our concerns moot

 

But I did agree with you that girls can be uncomfortable by this band and I said what Parker did was bad. I also said that I wasn't here when the story first broke out, so I wasn't aware of how many girls on this site were uncomfortable and if Parker's actions made them want to not listen to the band anymore. The only time I got offended was when I was being accused of somehow being okay with what Parker did.

 

and that's okay, and again, I really don't want to tell people they can't listen to or enjoy things just because I'm uncomfortable with them, I have to wrestle with that issue on a daily basis myself. I just wanted to raise the discussion because it was something I wasn't even aware of and thought others might also want to know if they stumble on the thread.
It's cool that you can give it a pass, I just feel like once it got to the point of argument you jumped on the defensive through how female's experience the band which is not up to us to decide.

that being said, I never mean to approach these things with hostility as they come with a great learning curve and I am still learning on a daily basis about these dilemmas so try and approach with a little more understanding, I hold no ill will towards u

 

Nah man, you're good. The argument did get a bit dumb and I should have just called it off earlier. Before today I didn't even think about how Parker's actions could have affected girls who listened to the band. Any defensiveness on my part was most likely me thinking about how a band I enjoy could make girls uncomfortable.

 

Gonna catch up and keep an eye on this thread because things with this band can get, uhhhh, a little dicey

 

Not trying to argue, I'm genuinely curious.

Wouldn't you want to have these threads so you can continue the conversation and help educate fans on the bands/members actions?

And I know it's not always as simple as this, but if a thread were to make someone uncomfortable wouldn't the best choice of action be to not click on the thread?

 

I appreciate that and in no way am trying to police other people's interests because it's very tricky and subjective, thanks for being open and hearing me out

 

We shouldnt have to help educate people on these things but I get that some people are just really casual fans, and thats fine, but there are better discussions going on in threads about misogyny in our scene, toxic masculinity, an over saturation of angry white dudes who think slut shaming and slurs are "cathartic", and while its good that these conversations happen in these band/album threads it can be really weird seeing people just kind of want to brush it aside or sweep it away. Clicking on a thread shouldnt be a roll of the dice as to making someone feel uncomfortable. Ideally we wouldnt HAVE to have these convos and we wouldnt have to worry about this stuff because you'd think a scene that once prided itself on being welcoming and championing minorities wouldnt have such a toxic and childish view of women. No one should have to worry about getting hurt at any show ever. No one should have to worry about getting groped at a show. If there are women that enjoy TSSF, cool thats all well and good but that doesnt change the fact that this band is contributing to the very gross landscape of our scene.

And to respond to @FreshnessExpired and @josh- I was just putting a dril tweet in here because i find him funny and wasnt necessarily referring to either of you but i do find that tweet prescient to a lot of the type of pop punk bros that will choose to die on the hill of defending bands like Neck Deep, Moose Blood, etc. As to the point that "older bands we like also had sexist lyrics!"....well, yeah and? That doesnt excuse any of the other bands. Thats just a pure logical fallacy. Everyone is allowed to draw their own lines, you can listen to this band all you want and thats cool, but it doesnt change the fact that SOMETHING needs to change in our scene and people need to be held accountable for what transpires. I sincerely hope you will all read this and not jump to attacking or anything because im really genuinely trying to explain WHY we came in here and said what we did and why it can be very frustrating to see bands like this be defended.

I'd also recommend looking up some of the women writers that write for a lot of scene websites and see their posts/tweets/etc about this situation because frankly im still ignorant to a lot of things and im coming from this through the lens of a man so i can only offer what people have told me and what other much more well informed posters have said in the past.

 

Regardless of the gender, if your solution to removing someone overstaying their time on stage is to drop kick them, you're a douche.

 

Do we not all agree that it's a shitty thing to do? I thought that much at least was obvious?

Also, I'm not getting involved in the discussion, I will say I can't stand the songs Daughters and Mt Diablo because of the lyrics and I'm glad they don't play them live anymore. Whilst I think this band definitely has it's troubling issues, I can see past them (that doesn't mean ignore them though) because I enjoy the music. If they write more lyrics in the vein of those two songs above, I probably wouldn't continue to support them though.