The Lack of Diversity at Bled Fest • Page 3

Believe it or not, I'm not bitter, nor am I the idiot you seem to think I am for disagreeing with you. because again to me the problem is more than just women being represented on the bill. that is part of the problem. not the problem itself. and I don't think adding women to the bottom of the card just to claim you are more diverse (which is why they would be doing it at this particular point in times) solves anything. I'm actually enjoying where the conversation has gone. Do I disagree with a lot of whats been said? yes. Will I deny the validity or justification for any of the counterpoints against me? No. No one's being disrespectful, the conversation hasn't dissolved to name calling, (outside of you more or less assuming I'm ignorant, but even that I wouldn't so much call name calling). To me, if anything, this conversation is progress compared to how these things usually go.

 

You're either horrible at reading comprehension or flat out trolling, I can't really tell the difference now and it's getting really frustrating to say the same things multiple times when you ignore them to argue what I think you wish I said instead, so this is the last time I'm going to respond because I've got stuff I have to go do and all my posts from here on out would just be re-quoting myself.

Even after I pointed out why going through specific artists is missing the whole point and would dive in to having to prove the worth of any band I list — here we are. Anyway: What you said was that casual music fans wouldn't be drawn to Baker. This is factually untrue, and something proven even more irrelevant given the size of other bands on the bill that no casual music fan will have even heard of - which was used by you as an argument against diversification (said differently: unheard of white dudes get the pass from this qualification).

What you created was an imaginary "target market" that you've just made up and decided what fits and what doesn't if it helps your argument: counter to the facts of the bill, and the fact that, quoting myself again: "Your entire argument is predicated on a perfect target market and perfect bill crafted to match it 100% — this is a complete fallacy. No such perfection is attainable. This bill is not structured as such. And therefore any argument based upon that premise is flawed from the start."

 

And your under the impression that these markets don't exist. But warped tour has these markets, Skate and Surf has these markets. SXSW has these markets. They target specific audiences. I see where the gaps are in this lineup (If Candy Hearts were still around, or if Petal were there, I would have had a different reaction) To the casual music market that most likely would attend this specific festival I would not see the one artist people keep coming back to doing well. I've now listed 4 female artists that I think would have done better over that one (based on the other artists that this festival has incorporated). But people seem to be so stuck on the fact that I said that one wouldn't work that they'd rather just blow me off. At that point this whole point and any validity that may have been behind any of my statements is dismissed based off of one artist that we disagree on? at that point, maybe I'm not the issue.

 

Another thing I literally never once said.

 

Well you seem to think I'm reading the market of who would work at this festival completely wrong (even though that isn't really the point of the whole women debate that I was in previously) There are artists, female artists, people of color, that would fit well at the festival. I don't think Baker is one. I don't think that this festival has good justifications for its lineup but I do believe they have their own and I've brought up several of them (again, not agreeing nor disagreeing with if I would have booked this festival the same way they do, or that kinda half ass statement they gave about why things are how they are). I don't believe asking these festivals to change or demanding change from them will have the same effect that everyone is hoping for. I can't help that I disagree with it, no matter how much I'd even like too agree with it. Do I think there are solutions? yes, they involve putting new people in power over trusting the old people to do it correctly. That sums up about 95-98% of what I have been trying to say, been saying this whole thread. No, I'm not trolling because I disagree with you this one time on almost everything. We're still on the same side, doesn't mean we have to fight the same though.

This threads actually been fun, and probably pretty beneficial because at least it shows that people can really disagree and be civil (which is something most sites need more of )

 

@Jason Tate when I joined this community, it was because you wrote a lengthy piece about how this would be different from absolute punk. You said this would be a community where people would feel safe expressing their opinions. Yet, you now are throwing insults towards someone you disagree with. Why do that? You could easily stop responding. You could end it in a civilized manner. You don't have to agree but your point was easily understood by most posters including myself, yet what I got out of it by the end of reading this was that you can easily be baited into an argument which leads to being insolent. Maybe I'm missing something about how you wanted this forum to be moderated.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all. Don't let others ruin this community and be the example you say you want to be.

 

Honestly I wouldn't get bent out of shape over it. It's a subject a lot of us care about. He wasn't overly insulting, just frustrated because he feels I missed a lot of his points, I didn't miss them. I disagree with them though

 

Your outlook enables bigotry. It is the logic of, let them do as they do, marginalized people can develop elsewhere. We can, but to the point is to dismantle areas in which profit determines our exclusion.

 

I never said that at all — there are quite a few opinions that are flat out not allowed here.

What insult did I throw out? That someone is horrible at reading comprehension? I don't think that's an insult. It was true.

I have zero problems with any of the discussion in this thread.

I have no issue with anyone saying something that only falls into the "not nice" category. (Seems you don't either.)

 

When someone has to repeat themselves for an entire conversation I think frustration is warranted. I want to give people the benefit of the doubt but when something has to be repeated that often I really think the crucial point is being missed.

 

Okay, and you know the gender identity and sexuality of all of the artists playing Bled Fest... How?

 

I didn't say I did.

 

Man this thread was a tough read.

 

The only person outlook I've posted in this whole thread were two things 1) Baker is not who I would personally book for this festival (which is more or less entirely pointless of an argument as a whole but I trust someone would dig it up as an example against me to prove a point or something) and 2) I don't believe directly attacking these festivals is going to get us where we want to go. Anything else I have posted is either theory on why I think it won't work or why the festival's are doing what they're doing. Why I think this festival wouldnt risk purposely making a more varied festival in regards to gender and race or why I think that simply adding more women to the lower end of the bill isn't a solution and that it doesn't say equality to me. Everyone can think I'm trolling but that would just be a small step and thats only depending on the reasoning ( if they give it to us because it is the right thing to do then we win. If they slap some women or minorities in the bottom just to shut up people that have a complaint about that do we still win?) At that point is it more important to get females put on the festival as opposed to actually changing the view of Booker's? Because those are two different issues to me. Again here's the sad part to me. I'm on your side. But rather than think of things from multiple perspectives to analyze every side of the coin this turned into a shitfest. I'm glad your all in agreement on how this should work. I just think theorizing other avenues to attack is sometimes more important than the direct assault approach. But to each his /her own

 

I'm not sure I get it. You want more diversity. If you were booking a show or a fest and had about a gozillion worth of overhead to recoup, would you first start taking applications for the bands fronted by the the homosexual, African American, female lead singer that draws 4 kids per show? Would you get all the locals that sell pre sales, the big national acts coming through that week, and whatever headliners could pack the seats? Business wise, it is a pretty clear choice so I don't know why it falls on the concerts shoulders to make sure there are X amount of minority bands in the roster.

 

It's so frustrating to see people saying over and over again, "well these bands don't make money or draw large crowds" as if the majority of acts on festivals have 1000+ watching their sets on every stage.

 

Yes.

 

Now chorus.fm feels like the AP I used to know.

 

Please don't take it as a bad thing. I know most of the staff and long time posters from AP have gotten tired of always having to repeat explanations again and again. For someone like me who has little knowledge on issues like this, discussions such as this are informative.

 

• Personal attacks
• Trolling or insulting/derogatory comments

These are two of the rules you set. So trolling someone and insulting them isn't allowed... I guess the rules don't apply to you and you don't have to set the example. Are you just saying something you don't care to follow? Is it really too much to ask that you set a good example? Unreal...

 

If you believe that Tate, by repeating himself for three pages because of other users requiring unreasonable specificity/not listening, is making either of those violations I would absolutely love to see where.

 

@Jason Tate you know what... It doesn't even matter. I can already tell this is no different than ap.net. No need to even hash this out.

 

He doesn't have to insult people by calling them ignorant or insulting their reading comprehension. Why can't he just move on if he doesn't want to repeat himself? Again, too much to ask?

Edit: I think Dominick is doing a much better job discussing the matter personally.

 

O

Keep it to one post dude.

And if one person isn't willing to fully participate in the conversation then yes it is ignorant. He's quite literally ignoring what Tate has to say.

@doubledribble By your definition Doninick has done more name calling than Tate has. So.